Discussion Why Lineage 2 is DEAD

[Mr_Zero]

Having read the topic, I would first like to say that those who are content with letting the game die out, cool, okay, there are plenty of great games out there. 

With that out of the way let's move on to NCSOFT/NCWEST. Nothing to discuss here, the modern game is terrible, the business model and ethics, even more so. So no point of wasting energy on it. It's done for and there's no saving it. 

Now let's move on to what actually still keeps this game alive and kicking; it's the private scene. 

How does the private scene function these days, at least in a large number of servers that attract high populations (not all, but the majority). Leading figures within the big & reputable CPs/Clans broker deals with the administrators. Then, they distribute potential earnings (or perks in some cases, like 1-2 nobless) to the various CPs that join them. The server core membership is now gradually gathered. It's time to post on the forum of the said server and announce that they will play. Other sides either having been paid or bribed as well follow suit. Then, numerous CPs begin to take notice, along with smaller clans, and they all jump on the hype train. Because, after all, this game is fun when populated.

Now let's speak about predominant organized Clan/CP objectives. It's of course to succeed on the server, post some nice fraps, assert dominance in general. Then the RMT begins, in most cases. Gear is sold, epics are sold. Then, rinse and repeat with the new project where brokering begins. This is one of the two fundemental reasons that servers struggle to survive. 

The second fundemental reason as to why servers struggle to survive is because the wider player-base along with administrators are reluctant and/or to "chronicle progress" their servers. You join a x20 / x50 / x100 server and you expect it to last for over 2 months. Or you join an x5 / x10 and expect it to last for more than 3-4 months. Why? Why do we have that expectation? We're playing the game on accelerated rates without updates being thrown in to shuffle things up and provide more content. Oh, and we have optimized our game-play to insane levels, along with being able to use 3rd party programs that speed up the process all the more. 

This was the pace of the updates on retail with x1 rates:

 

28 April 2004	1 October 2003	C0	Prelude
28 June 2004	28 January 2004	C1	Chronicle 1: Harbingers of War
8 December 2004	11 August 2004	C2	Chronicle 2: Age of Splendor
10 May 2005	2 March 2005	C3	Chronicle 3: Rise of Darkness
8 February 2006	26 October 2005	C4	Chronicle 4: Scions of Destiny
6 September 2006	1 June 2006	C5	Chronicle 5: Oath of Blood

 

Two years from C1 to C5 

 

and 

 

11 April 2007	13 December 2006	CT0	Interlude
11 December 2007	16 August 2007	CT1	The Kamael
23 April 2008	12 December 2007	CT1.5	Hellbound / Kamael Plus
12 August 2008	30 April 2008	CT2.1	Gracia Part 1
28 October 2008	13 August 2008	CT2.2	Gracia Part 2
28 April 2009	26 November 2008	CT2.3	Gracia Final

 

two years from Interlude to Gracia Final, again, on x1 rates. So, in order for a server with higher rates to survive for like a year or so with a good population, you'd need to jump a few chronicles during its lifetime. Forget the many other reasons why servers don't last, from accelerated game-play to content ratio alone, you need updates to increase longevity.  But who's radical enough to try that in todays environment? (not go trough every single chronicle, but for example start off as Interlude, jump to Gracia, then jump to High Five)  And is the wider player base commited to sticking around? Can it be profitable enough to satisfy the owner behind it?  
 

Edited May 16, 2020 by mr zero

[etherian]

3 hours ago, *real*savormix said:

 

@etherian yes:

Prelude BETA leak (336 client)

the three C1 leaks (the english one needed throwing out the trash)

C4

rpgclub GF (also needed throwing out the trash)

GD

Ertheia

 

Extenders are good as they tackle common exploits (that are well known due to how horribly outdated the leaked files are) and server crashes. Everything else that an extender does, is cancer (unless you yourself specifically need that in your custom gameplay).

 

As for the client packets, that is easy, as explained above. I can disguise a MUO server as a L2 server (even the latest LIVE/CLASSIC/BLOODY version), so what? It is still MUO that players would be actually playing. Not L2, no matter how much advertisements would claim otherwise.

In other words, just because I would make MUO server work with IL client, that will not magically make me have a REAL IL private server.

 cool then

never heard of MUO server disguised as L2  
but is ok  you know about  history of private server / etc

might be a bit diferent from what i tested cause i only used everything that was free out there

never bought a server pack from anyone
and i always tried to make something that maybe points more to dungeon and dragons stuff 
like renaming Trives for Yuan-Ti and other crazy stuff i did back with H5 client and Freya/H5  java server  
well after all i am just a fanatic of forgotten real stuff  like ice wind dale, neverwinter nights, DQK from DOS, ofc baludurs gate and over all of them the temple of elemental evil

some ppl back in that time asked me
-what it is this?
me :  - ever plated D&D ?
- no this is lineage 2
me :  ok nevermind  xD

mostly with Java server at H5  
i know is not related... but in some way it has a kind of weird connection 
or at least is what i think and might want to make over L2 that was capable world/etc  to be close to D&D

 
ofc  not d&d game rules neither many things 

well im writing out of topic things  let's stop here

maybe i should start whispering  Shire...  Baggins...

lol

laters

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by etherian

[LordPanic]

9 hours ago, *real*savormix said:

@LordPanic you seem so intent on saving L2 and/or its community, even though you yourself admit that the people currently playing on p servers do not really care. They would play MUO, Aion, BDO, CabalO or whatever shit as long as they can connect there with their preinstalled L2 client.

 

I never implement the "save - whatever" it was just to clear things out and show the true side of each server. I just said instead of doing nothing (since i have the time). It's good gesture to make a site where you will find filtered servers that have been reviwed ACTIVELY by ppl. I will do it as a hobby, if people will appreciate my work it's ok if not i dont rly care. When you start a project you do it because you feel it i dont chase nothing else. Hell i got 0 messages for the cause, even @Trance who gave me the idea never responded to that.

 

L2 community is stuck to the nostalgia loop quiting and playing over again, a stupid loop that never ends. It's what it's, this is due to many factors but anyway i wont bother to discuss it because it's long story to talk about.

 

But letting l2 p crappy servers rampaging like that? I dont know but it boils my blood....

[etherian]

10 minutes ago, LordPanic said:

 

if you manage to make that and exclude the requisite of giving server ports like topzone/hopzone
and just like https://topg.org  and https://www.topgs200.com/
plus as you say about testing any server out there and making a review
but... know that not everyone will agree with your review
mostly casue it is your point of view and what you like maybe others dont and viceversa
but still cool the idea and why not, most of the places to promote servers are not far from MXC,ragezone and pmfun

 

[LordPanic]

14 minutes ago, etherian said:

if you manage to make that and exclude the requisite of giving server ports like topzone/hopzone
and just like https://topg.org  and https://www.topgs200.com/
plus as you say about testing any server out there and making a review
but... know that not everyone will agree with your review
mostly casue it is your point of view and what you like maybe others dont and viceversa
but still cool the idea and why not, most of the places to promote servers are not far from MXC,ragezone and pmfun

 

It's player oriented but if im alone i cant do much about it so making reviews alone is the only option. Thats why every help out there is welcome.

 

I will try to make the reviews as objective as possible.

Edited May 17, 2020 by LordPanic

[etherian]

20 minutes ago, LordPanic said:

 

It's player oriented but if im alone i cant do much about it so making reviews alone is the only option. Thats why every help out there is welcome.

 

I will try to make the reviews as objective as possible.

can't give more reactions today so this quote is my upvote 
add some twitch stuff or support for streaming or something related
for example at facebook groups you can do live stream 
but storage can be a thing maybe just embeed a twitch channel if server or active user has

Edited May 17, 2020 by etherian

[Trance]

3 hours ago, LordPanic said:

 

I never implement the "save - whatever" it was just to clear things out and show the true side of each server. I just said instead of doing nothing (since i have the time). It's good gesture to make a site where you will find filtered servers that have been reviwed ACTIVELY by ppl. I will do it as a hobby, if people will appreciate my work it's ok if not i dont rly care. When you start a project you do it because you feel it i dont chase nothing else. Hell i got 0 messages for the cause, even @Trance who gave me the idea never responded to that.

 

L2 community is stuck to the nostalgia loop quiting and playing over again, a stupid loop that never ends. It's what it's, this is due to many factors but anyway i wont bother to discuss it because it's long story to talk about.

 

But letting l2 p crappy servers rampaging like that? I dont know but it boils my blood....

 

It's a good idea, it's just that I'm busy these days.

[longcat]

every mmo  is dead

[Mr_Zero]

6 hours ago, LordPanic said:

 

I never implement the "save - whatever" it was just to clear things out and show the true side of each server. I just said instead of doing nothing (since i have the time). It's good gesture to make a site where you will find filtered servers that have been reviwed ACTIVELY by ppl. I will do it as a hobby, if people will appreciate my work it's ok if not i dont rly care. When you start a project you do it because you feel it i dont chase nothing else. Hell i got 0 messages for the cause, even @Trance who gave me the idea never responded to that.

 

L2 community is stuck to the nostalgia loop quiting and playing over again, a stupid loop that never ends. It's what it's, this is due to many factors but anyway i wont bother to discuss it because it's long story to talk about.

 

But letting l2 p crappy servers rampaging like that? I dont know but it boils my blood....

 

Any incentive that promotes and assists credible projects is a welcome one, despite that in itself being subjective. However, how can such a model be sustainable? There are several projects that continuously launch - and in many cases even rebrand. Yell, we now have servers with two domains redirecting to the same server (TheGame/Noobwars is a prime example of this practice). It's hectic out there; the wider community is impulsive, and the "core" community - largely -  is content with the current state of the game, which is rinse and repeat. Think about it, they actually thrive on it. Big clans profit, RMTers profit, L2Adrenaline profits, as more cycles of seasons equals to repetitive heavy farming, increasing demand for renewal in the product itself, and not to mention that donations gradually decrease on a project over time. 

 

So how does one combat such an erratic environment? I suppose trying to direct players from bad projects to higher quality servers is a good start. But even the better projects stuggle due to the community being impulsive. But I definitely think a project should step up and try things differently. I think there's a stable audiance out there, but stagnant chronicle setups are outdated. Not enough anymore, imo. That's why you see a bunch of server clients being "reworked" (e-global, Valhalla-Age, Dex) have all chosen this route, because it brings something different to the table. 
 

My dream server for next season whould be someone being completely radical, launching a server that will progress in chronicles and attempt to emulate (loosely) the way the game was originally played - at a higher pace of course since we don't have the stomach for endless grind. 

 

C4 > Interlude > Gracia > Highfive 

 

If someone serious announces this I will contact every single person I know and promote it with everything I've got. : D 

Edited May 17, 2020 by mr zero

[LordPanic]

42 minutes ago, mr zero said:

So how does one combat such an erratic environment? I suppose trying to direct players from bad projects to higher quality servers is a good start. But even the better projects stuggle due to the community being impulsive. But I definitely think a project should step up and try things differently.

 

Keeping players in healthy environment will benefit the community for sure. Honest servers will benefit from that, joke servers i dont think so. It is very hard to start reviewing every single server out there it's time consuming but im willing to start it. I wont use any shabby site or anything , a forum with server list in a seperate tab. In the future i might  upgrades it but for now since budget is very tight i will keep it simple. Maybe i will ask from mxc community to give some help with the logos etc.. dunno.

Edited May 17, 2020 by LordPanic

[Dev]

5 hours ago, longcat said:

every mmo  is dead

 

What it is not dead or full bots ? 

[etherian]

we are  dead...   lol
 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by etherian

[Blitzkrieg]

I find the idea of creating a site that promotes serious servers very interesting. Quite frankly I would probably cut out like 95% of the servers that launch. 

 

A few criteria that would make a server approvable or not could be:

• Features. Is there anything new and unique? 
• L2OFF or L2J? Bringing something new to the table on L2OFF platform should be encouraged for obvious reasons. On the other hand, an L2J server that has nothing unique at all is probably inexcusable. *(Depending on rates ofc)
• How much time did the server require to get prepared? Were things tested thoroughly, for example at an alpha stage?
• Server owners. What's their history? Have they been involved in lying attempts/corruptions/etc. That should be an insta rejection (A specific "l2off" server that recently launched comes to my mind). Have they launched other servers under disguise?
• Server staff and general communication with players. Do conversations take place? Are suggestions being heard and considered? Does the staff present itself in a decent and professional manner? Can they speak english adequately (lol).
• Beta stage experience. Does the server live up to what the owners have presented? Is it at last worth playing there? That should be the final step.

 

The website should attract healthy players that care for the longevity of a server they play in and avoid at all costs mercenary CPs that jump from one server to another. In any case it would require  members filtering since many would jump in to promote their own interests.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Blitzkrieg

[Mr_Zero]

With the declining player base and the massine increase in bad projects over the last few years, the best thing the community can do is attempt to redirect the population to servers that deserve to be supported / populated. But yeah, mercenary groups and practices are a big issue. 

[etherian]

indie projects like this one are making me fear the worst
not only for my srv  but for almost all lineage 2 communities
i asked to a lot of ppl since 2018 and mostly people that never played lineage 2
question as will you like to join X server, overall people answer 
- no is old, unreal 2 ?  no thanks  etc etc etc
chummers... unless we do something were gonna hit hard a dead end
 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by etherian