Discussion Why Lineage 2 is DEAD

[abeoudakis]

old..

[StepUp]

for a 17-years old game it's pretty alive to me :)

[sebach1]

you are trying to bring back the titanic from the bottom of the ocean.

1)full p2w model
2)absolute total lack of respect/interest from game developers to what community wants/needs
3)prehistoric graphic engine
4)no real new content since ages

l2 is dead so much time ago you even forgot it.

[erikis12]

2 minutes ago, sebach1 said:

you are trying to bring back the titanic from the bottom of the ocean.

1)full p2w model
2)absolute total lack of respect/interest from game developers to what community wants/needs
3)prehistoric graphic engine
4)no real new content since ages

l2 is dead so much time ago you even forgot it.

Mmorpg genre is dead, people don't have time to grind and develop the character for years, they prefer quick games, with quick progress.

[*real*savormix]

4 minutes ago, sebach1 said:

you are trying to bring back the titanic from the bottom of the ocean.

4)no real new content since ages

 

Not only that, but in latest L2 live and L2 classic updates, content is being straight removed (not reworked) left and right. Soon there will be no content left at all.

 

2 minutes ago, erikis12 said:

Mmorpg genre is dead, people don't have time to grind and develop the character for years, they prefer quick games, with quick progress.

 

Very true.

[erikis12]

3 minutes ago, *real*savormix said:

Not only that, but in latest L2 live and L2 classic updates, content is being straight removed (not reworked) left and right. Soon there will be no content left at all.

Game as it is in present would be still great if only remove from it p2w content. Look little back. Tons of folks wanted to play. But each new "event" or l2store update killed more and more. I would be first in line to join pay to play server without l2store. Same as classic now. Wish to dreams came true.

[LordPanic]

2 hours ago, erikis12 said:

Game as it is in present would be still great if only remove from it p2w content.

 

Besides that , every single sever out there use the same balance scaling system. Unavoidable end game full of archers + mages. Making the game monotone, ofc it's not entirely admins fault. Since l2 players got older and sick of farming due to work or whatever . Providing them NPC Buffers , vip premium boosts , donate bling blings etc... Everything to make their experience more convinient.

 

Even low rate servers somehow fail that, it's actually amazing. This is due to bad game knowledge. Most servers use the same features (if not identical) with some minor differences.

 

Either you create a server with many playable class's or dont even bother to make one.Because there are already many server using the same formula over and over again so one more with the same features doesnt make any difference.

 

There is definitely a way to achieve that and it's actually easy to make.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by LordPanic

[Yoo]

8 minutes ago, LordPanic said:

 

Besides that , every single sever out there use the same balance scaling system. Unavoidable end game full of archers + mages. Making the game monotone, ofc it's not entirely admins fault. Since l2 players got older and sick of farming due to work or whatever . Providing them NPC Buffers , vip premium boosts , donate bling blings etc... Everything to make their experience more convinient.

 

Even low rate servers somehow fail that, it's actually amazing. This is due to bad game knowledge. Most servers use the same features (if not identical) with some minor differences.

 

Either you create a server with many playable class's or dont even bother to make one. There is definitely a way to achieve that and it's actually easy to make.

 

"This is due to bad game knowledge AND SERVER DESIGN. To make all classes playable first of all you need retail buff. Without that nobody cares for anything other than archer and maybe mage. Epic jewels must be checked. Some (even low) servers make them OVERwork to an extent that an archer can kill ANYTHING and die by nothing bcz the item is not proper. And ofc this goes for duel might.. It's not working as intended. Ok usually this happens bcz admins want money.. And what is easier than making money out of stpids wanting to 1-2 shot anything? Sagi making 7-10k to mage same items and to titan at the same time.. Makes 0 sense. Nobody wants to play the support class anymore bcz they can't find parties as all ask for destro to roll to archer or pure mages especially sps/necro REGARDLESS of server RATE.. But having active pp/se/cat/pony makes a lot of difference.. yet the prefer servers with 2-3 boxes to use them purely as a buff and nothing more. Which makes me wonder why bother to go to a x1-x10 if you want to play the archer of a x10000? :/ (and don't tell me he is weak on IL.. He is not by any means.. But you need to know how to move around, how to buff and what you should kill first and actually using the few skills this class has..)

For me the biggest problem of all is this stupid mentality that all buffers should be boxed and that ppl want only 2 working classes.. A summoner on true buffs environment AND class skills AND weapons/armors working is a difficult opponent for any class. Same goes for tyrant or even a SWS or BD on HIGH levels. Heck even warcrier can be a pain if all IL features work and nothing is modified to satisfy crying  donators (usually) and cry babies that are accustomed to x10000 balance.

Botting is the least of server problems and the easier to defend a server to IF you use basic guards and most importantly active gms. Toxic players where never the issue as nobody rly cares if someone says "fck your mom" or whatever other flamming crap you can think of.

Another problem is the cp mentality. Cp is not bad by itself. Excluding everything is though. What I see from 99% of cps these days is the following: 1) Need bp/ov, 2)need archer/titan, 3) need bd/sws and rarely 4)need sps. Why? Bcz all play 2 pt formations and box the rest. When was the last time a tank, se, pp, summoner was able to EASILY find a pt to go to?.. Heck even sph is thrown to the wolves along with basic fighting classes. The usual argument is that they are not as efficient but it's not true. By allowing boxes you just steal more active spots. Say you have no boxes, can you really make a pure destro pt to farm? No. Why? You need to many slots for buffs. Would you make a pure sps pt to farm? No.. Toooo many spots for buffs and you need atleast 2 EE.. This happens bcz of bad server design to ease the players that have no time. The problem though is this.. IF you have no time why join a x1-x10? and secondly why care so much to be the top of the top? can you compete whoever is playing 10+hours? No. And neither you should. As it doesn't happen in real life a well.. You go to the gym 1 hour per week vs going to the gym 3 hours per day 5 days out of 7. You can't built the same body even with steroids. You won't have the power. So why in l2 you demand the same progress and strength by playing 3hours per day 3-4 time a week vs players that play 10hours per day 5 times a week? And then the bots start.. The dona starts.. premium buffs start, buffers, pots, scrolls in shop, quests in shop, etc.. But the admin does nothing.. And the server goes down in flames..

It's a 3 sided issue. And the 3rd is paid players (either from clans or a gm). It's not bad on its own. It always existed and still exists. The problem is that even though the get money they get greedier and greedier and they either play 2-3 weeks and cash out and move to next or simply quit to not lose their name and keep getting hired. BUT money should be the secondary. Even if you get 2k from jewel it's your side money. But to get them again you need a second win. Not just jump around like a clown. You need time to form competition if you are not already a ready made cp. You don't get that time anymore. Server is dead long before you are ready. And the crazy thing is ppl will buy the jewel or the ++ weap for a server that died.. Call it human stupidity.

And another huge issue is admin interfering.. A good way to solve the cp problem would be to "break" their mentality. If you are so stupid as to share password LET them get robbed. Don't butt in bcz they cry to give the item back.. If a member breaks pt to get the epic and manages to do it LET it. It takes skill and it's allowed. Stop whipping their tears and let them get fooled as they should. It was MEANT to be played this way.

IL or L2 is not dead.. And no updates to newer chronicles is not the solution imo. Some simply don't like h5+. if you allow the server to be fully alive without butting in and have the correct server features endgame is not 2 days. am+10 is not 2 weeks.. etc etc etc.. It takes a lot more to be completely full in 1 class to get sooooo bored to leave. Imagine wanting to play more than 1 class (subclass).. It will take a looooooong time with a lot of pvp in between. But to make this happen you need to attract the RIGHT kind of player, or atleast change the way of the old.. Which is not easy. And hence servers fail after 1 hero, castles, epics, etc..

[Pastorious]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:12 AM, *real*savormix said:

 Otherwise you MUST go the way @MasterToma did, simply RE and create equivalent source code.

"MUST"? "equivalent code"?

It is a wrong idea. Game mechanic is well know,  that's why the java emulator was made, some guys try even CSharp or javascript. Nothing prevents you from writing such a new game engine, modern, based on newest tech stack and modern compilers. How many players can hold l2off Interlude? 10k? 15K?  How about 100k? 200k? How can I be sure that l2off project was perfect? The way @MasterToma is the dead end. Technology and ideas  from 2000, not 2020.

The problem is here - developers community. Try look at WoW emulators  - C++, good documentation, opensourced.

In world of L2 dev-admins - money, greed, closed, bad code, lack of no documentation at all.

And at least but not last - best game engines (UE4, Unity) are now available from zero cost at beggining.

(Again, LU4 closed project and not finallized, maybe 1/6 or less content after 5 years and only client side)

Many free opensource tools - Blender , free assets etc

Theoritically nothing stops You from making  a modern opensource AAA grade game . Only lack of skills and time.

Wake up ppl, we are living in 2020

[*real*savormix]

1 minute ago, Pastorious said:

It is a wrong idea. Game mechanic is well know,  that's why the java emulator was made

And yet, even in this day, halfway into 2020, the l2 java emulator still executes auto-attacks in a completely incorrect fashion.

 

I mean, I could understand if some special skill, like those signet-consuming ones was half-done, but this is a feature that is used nearly every fucking second of server's uptime, and typically at least hundreds of times. The completely flawed implementation does pile up you know.

 

L2J is a failure at L2 emulation. all it does is allow people to try to create their own MMO based on some client, similarly to WoW emulators.

[Pastorious]

10 minutes ago, *real*savormix said:

And yet, even in this day, halfway into 2020, the l2 java emulator still executes auto-attacks in a completely incorrect fashion.

 

I mean, I could understand if some special skill, like those signet-consuming ones was half-done, but this is a feature that is used nearly every fucking second of server's uptime, and typically at least hundreds of times. The completely flawed implementation does pile up you know.

 

L2J is a failure at L2 emulation. all it does is allow people to try to create their own MMO based on some client, similarly to WoW emulators.

I'm talking about possibilities not peebles on the road like lack of game knowledge. It not my words, but someone on the forum said  - some delevloper l2j maybe know j but not l2

Edited May 30, 2020 by Pastorious

[LordPanic]

22 minutes ago, Yoo said:

IL or L2 is not dead..

 

Many doesnt get it , game as it is might not be (completely) dead but the playable part is definetely dead for years.

 

As already known since the beginning of l2 emulator the donation introduction was the nemesis of the game. But compared to the old days prepared CP's wasnt a thing . Game was still fresh and many didnt know much about it. So game was kinda pure to an extend, now it's tradition for admins to expect money for their server, and ask cp's to join their server for money. Even players got corrupted somehow, asking money ( this is sad). So the result of all this madness is players who look up for the quality decreased significantly most of them already retired and the few who left play occasionally. Now about the 90% of players out there are old hags who doesnt know much about the game, donating to play archer with duel might passive,active this is pretty much the majority of l2 community now and admins milking them non - stop.  Anyway thats old news.

Story of l2 private servers *Fact.

 

I will tell you why admins have the 70% of the fault here.It's simple because they dont bother to ask the community for improvements. They keep abusing the same formula over and over again, introducing new interfaces even bot allow features (what?) thats it pretty much. They completely ignore the balance system, but im almost sure that they just dont know how to do it. They are that bad.

 

Question for big name admins out there:

After all this years milking donates, why u dont create a legit server with many playable class's. It's actually easy to make stop using the same god damn formula. Balance system sucks big time.

 

 

[Lovedrunk]

Every admin is clueless nowadays, not even trying to come up with new ideas.

Also I have never seen such a fuckin monkey community then the community that is playing private lineage 2 servers. Kids got spoiled and now they dont know what a real l2 server looks like.

[Yoo]

26 minutes ago, LordPanic said:

 

I will tell you why admins have the 70% of the fault here.It's simple because they dont bother to ask the community for improvements. They keep abusing the same formula over and over again, introducing new interfaces even bot allow features (what?) thats it pretty much. They completely ignore the balance system, but im almost sure that they just dont know how to do it. They are that bad.

 

 

 

 

No no no no .. Not bot allow features! It's now called auto assist farming helper!!!!!!!!!! :D Sounds better?.. xDDDDDDDDD Stupidest idea I've ever seen thus far..

The can't fix it (the balance). Most don't even know how it's supposed to be but this is secondary. Firat and foremost they simply can't. Some times is the server files itself that cannot be corrected, other times they don't know where to look and many times they just don't wanna fix it. But in my experience all c4 based servers have pretty much the same issues on very specific classes and noone fixes them. I'm not a developer but my guess is since they cannot be fixed with an extender or they cannot be used in a simple formula, ex. mc is x4 the base dmg,  they can't control it (landing rate of silence based on M.attack, cdl dmg output based on life+m.attack, etc). Heck I've seen server that sorceror was doing double damage because song of flame was not working and to top it all.. Holy weapon attribut on IL server adding holy damage to MAGE weap but here is the kick.. ADDING DAMAGE TO MAGIC SPELL. so you had a sps doing water+holy damage xDDDDDD And this was on a low server.. Even in the crappiest pvp that second class dwarf was doing more damage than saggi with DM or gs with hex with DM didn't had that craziness..

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Yoo

[LordPanic]

25 minutes ago, Lovedrunk said:

Every admin is clueless nowadays, not even trying to come up with new ideas.

Also I have never seen such a fuckin monkey community then the community that is playing private lineage 2 servers. Kids got spoiled and now they dont know what a real l2 server looks like.

 

Their new ideas like mastery skill trees, custom quests , or what ever sucks big time too.  People who play l2 doesnt even care about such things Lineage 2 had the worst quests from almost all mmorpg games out there. Still people who played this game wasnt because of the "good" (kappa) quest lines. But because of the intense massive pvp action like sieges, rb fights,mass pvp's etc and hardcore griding (before IL era)...

 

Since this game is fight oriented you are obligated as admin to focus on balance, if ur balance sucks. You fk the purpose of the game.

 

28 minutes ago, Yoo said:

No no no no .. Not bot allow features! It's now called auto assist farming helper!!!!!!!!!! :D Sounds better?.. xDDDDDDDDD Stupidest idea I've ever seen thus far..

 

LMAO