Discussion PayPal permabans

[Trance]

2 minutes ago, BruT said:

If you sue paypal and they know you are doing illegal business you can easly end up in a jail.

 

People are willingly donating, there's nothing ilegal about it.

[BruT]

6 minutes ago, Trance said:

 

People are willingly donating, there's nothing ilegal about it.

Donating on an illegal service?

[Trance]

6 minutes ago, BruT said:

Donating on an illegal service?

 

You have to specify that you get rewarded in-game by donating, NOT that you have to donate in order to get something. Simple. Even though, in the worst case scenario, they can take over your domain - nothing will ever happen to you. Donations via PayPal and having a private server are 2 different things. More private servers will soon use crypto currency and players won't even be able to ask for a refund.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Trance

[BruT]

Still doesn't make your server legal nor the donations, its like to tell me that the money from drugs are legal, the drug itself is illegal so the money are illegal too, if u got cought you can explain to the police that the money for the drugs were donated.

[Trance]

32 minutes ago, BruT said:

Still doesn't make your server legal nor the donations, its like to tell me that the money from drugs are legal, the drug itself is illegal so the money are illegal too, if u got cought you can explain to the police that the money for the drugs were donated.

 

You're only accepting donations, not payments for your service. You're basically working on tips that are given willingly, and guess what, you're rewarding them in-game for that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If you own money to PayPal, they'll try to reach you through 3rd parties to get their money back, Those 3rd parties are going to contact you and you can simply ignore them. There's almost nothing they can do to you. Imagine if PayPal would be suing every suspicions account that owns them money - that's a waste of money and resources right there.

If they'd care why those people are donating for your project, they'd ask more information from you, before allowing that to happen in the first place.

They can lock the accounts for up to 180 days because the default refund period is 180 days from the transaction date.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Trance

[zemaitis]

2 hours ago, BruT said:

Still doesn't make your server legal nor the donations, its like to tell me that the money from drugs are legal, the drug itself is illegal so the money are illegal too, if u got cought you can explain to the police that the money for the drugs were donated.

 

Don't compare drugs with a gameserver. Stop spreading panic that people will go to jail because of running l2j servers. People need to understand that lineage2 private servers themselves are legal. Only way they can get to you is via website (if you use trademarked media, keywords and etc.). Any software developer who works professionally or anyone who attended patent lectures in university know this.

 

For example, l2jserver.com is running under GPLV3 licence as an emulator for "learning purposes". Thats all you need in your website to cover yourself from allegations of pirating. Especially if you run a java server, which does not have any resemblence to the leaked L2OFF files.

 

Only way ncsoft/innova can get you is on trademark (using l2/lineage2 keywords, images in website and etc.), and for that reason having a message like "all trademark rights belong to their respective owners" used to be enough in the past.

 

Worst that they can do now is ban your domain, so I noticed lots of servers who started moving on domains that don't have l2 prefix and in their websites you will never see l2/lineage2 word mentioned. Look for example how project-essence prepared their website. Problem solved.

 

Again, please stop spreading panic if you don't know how the industry works. Just checkout how biggest private servers are operating and you will get an idea how to setup everything to be as legal as possible. Or hire a lawyer who specializes in gambling/gaming industry, he will do market research and most likely come back to you with same conclusions.

 

  

2 hours ago, Trance said:

 

You're only accepting donations, not payments for your service. You're basically working on tips that are given willingly, and guess what, you're rewarding them in-game for that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If you own money to PayPal, they'll try to reach you through 3rd parties to get their money back, Those 3rd parties are going to contact you and you can simply ignore them. There's almost nothing they can do to you. Imagine if PayPal would be suing every suspicions account that owns them money - that's a waste of money and resources right there.

If they'd care why those people are donating for your project, they'd ask more information from you, before allowing that to happen in the first place.

They can lock the accounts for up to 180 days because the default refund period is 180 days from the transaction date.

 

It's 2021, we need to forget about donations. From now private servers should collect money via standard payments/micro transactions like any other gamestore. Admins need to stop using personal paypal accounts for collecting payments and they need to open business accounts. And also to create legal entities and start paying taxes. 

 

Private server admins started getting their paypals banned because the way they setted up their payment model looks like a total scam.

 

From paypals viewpoint you are not some charitable organization that needs to be running on donations. You are a business. So process payments as business. Now what a typical l2server has is a personal paypal account where payments are accepted via donations, a store with list of items that are given for these "donations", rules in website that say that "project is not obliged to give anything to the person who donated" and cherry on top - you get disputes where people "donated" to a project and didn't receive what is "promised". Thats multiple redflags. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by zemaitis

[Trance]

What @zemaitissays makes perfect sense.

[Berserkd]

Hi guys, thanks for answering and sorry for my delay in replying.

I found all your comments super useful.

Since it seems to be a patent problem as @zemaitis said, I think we can sum up everything commented in this 3 things:

1st- Keeping "Lineage II" as far as possible and clarify that this is a learning emulator, or something similar, avoiding trademark issues

2nd- Removing the "Donation" concept from everywhere, and explain that this is a sellable product. Even start making invoices to back it up.

3rd- Pray, and add crypto just in case.

 

Thank you all!.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Berserkd

[Playinnova]

PayPal will lock your account and ban you for ever if you recive too many gifts and familly and friends payments from many different persons. This also happened to me and i got several perma limited accounts. PayPal get directions from thier superiors to limit and restrict accounts that doesn't pay FEES. What this mean? If you recive money and a part of that money is hold to PayPal, they will not "ban" your account, but if you keep reciving payments as gifts or familly and friends (which does not require senders to pay FEES or recivers, they will lock, limit, ban or whatever else.

I writted all in a rush because i know the exact reason, hope you understand.

[Vision]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:26 AM, Playinnova said:

PayPal will lock your account and ban you for ever if you recive too many gifts and familly and friends payments from many different persons. This also happened to me and i got several perma limited accounts. PayPal get directions from thier superiors to limit and restrict accounts that doesn't pay FEES. What this mean? If you recive money and a part of that money is hold to PayPal, they will not "ban" your account, but if you keep reciving payments as gifts or familly and friends (which does not require senders to pay FEES or recivers, they will lock, limit, ban or whatever else.

I writted all in a rush because i know the exact reason, hope you understand.

 

@Playinnova

So business accounts which are only for goods and services and have fees in every transaction are totally safe?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Vision

[ZaNteR]

1 hour ago, Vision said:

 

@Playinnova

So business accounts which are only for goods and services and have fees in every transaction are totally safe?

As long as paypal gets their cut they gonna leave you alone.

[zemaitis]

24 minutes ago, ZaNteR said:

As long as paypal gets their cut they gonna leave you alone.

 

where you get this information?

[Celestine]

28 minutes ago, ZaNteR said:

As long as paypal gets their cut they gonna leave you alone.

 

actually you are right my friend stoped using friends&family method and once he started using goods & services everything went back to normal.

[Vision]

Also personal accounts with only goods and services it might be also a way.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Vision

[Playinnova]

Like I said, I have a big and long shit experience with PayPal limiting my accounts full with money and lock everything for 6 months for no reason and ban the account because they asked me who are all this friends and relatives lol. They asked me to tell them from where I know and who is the person that sended me money. So if you want to be safe on PayPal and not get limited, make sure they recive at least 10-20 euro if you recive 1000. And everytime you withdraw money use the instant (1% fee on card). Otherwise they will tell you that you are trying to avoid PayPal FEES and they will limit you because you only use thier PayPal services for recive "FREE" money.