Discussion Reworking Remastering Masterworking Improving Lineage 2

[Mr_Zero]

Many of you are familiar with the words mentioned in the title of this thread. These words - or synonyms - are commonly used to describe customized versions of the game that have been introduced in recent years. 
 

The purpose of this thread is to highlight some of your favorite customizations you've seen so far, and/or mention what you'd personally like to see in the future. 

This can include anything, really. Be it client/chronicle "downscaling", introducing level caps & stages, mixing content/skills from different chronicles, or even changing mechanics such as limiting a "full party" to 7 characters.

Rework 
Remaster 
Masterwork 
Improve 

it yourself. 
 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mr_Zero

[Xtellia]

Most of such servers are playable only within their admin's dead drugged brain. They're not improving the game but making it rely more on donations, premiums, VIPs, runes, etc.

All these "remastered" are just marketing terms used to sell another garbage server to folks.

[Romotheone]

15 minutes ago, Xtellia said:

Most of such servers are playable only within their admin's dead drugged brain. They're not improving the game but making it rely more on donations, premiums, VIPs, runes, etc.

All these "remastered" are just marketing terms used to sell another garbage server to folks.

That is an opinion to hold. How are the retail craft mid-rates doing?

 

You know... now that I think about it. The things you said are ironic to hear from a CLIENT DEVELOPER whose whole work consists of customizing things.

[Mr_Zero]

3 hours ago, Xtellia said:

Most of such servers are playable only within their admin's dead drugged brain. They're not improving the game but making it rely more on donations, premiums, VIPs, runes, etc.

All these "remastered" are just marketing terms used to sell another garbage server to folks.

Hi, as I mentioned in the opening post, the purpose of this thread is to highlight or suggest things that you’d like to see when it comes to this new trend, not to dispute said trend altogether. 
 

I would like to avoid having the topic derailed into an argument between purists vs non-purists. 
 

Thank you. 

[MrTitanas]

3 hours ago, Xtellia said:

Most of such servers are playable only within their admin's dead drugged brain. They're not improving the game but making it rely more on donations, premiums, VIPs, runes, etc.

All these "remastered" are just marketing terms used to sell another garbage server to folks.

It depends of public some people like it and some not, its nothing bad add donate function 4 server if for it a player can buy a hat or other thing if it not effect balance in game ( pay 2 win). 

[Romotheone]

11 hours ago, Mr_Zero said:

Many of you are familiar with the words mentioned in the title of this thread. These words - or synonyms - are commonly used to describe customized versions of the game that have been introduced in recent years. 
 

The purpose of this thread is to highlight some of your favorite customizations you've seen so far, and/or mention what you'd personally like to see in the future. 

This can include anything, really. Be it client/chronicle "downscaling", introducing level caps & stages, mixing content/skills from different chronicles, or even changing mechanics such as limiting a "full party" to 7 characters.

Rework 
Remaster 
Masterwork 
Improve 

it yourself. 
 

The thing is, you are most likely not going to receive an answer due to a few important reasons.
- First of all, what purpose does this topic have? Are you opening a server and not know what to do with it?

- Second, depends on how far into customizing your gameplay you wanna go. I can tell you for example that I think Ketra vs Varka as a few hours long event each day could be a really fun feature. People sign up into one of these factions, then they have to kill and defend each others mobs and bosses. Then in a few hours the winner is announced and the next day the event resets to 0. But ideas like this one could be thrown up into the air 100fold. How do you implement this into the server's economy, balance in terms of gear, balance in terms of classes, balance in terms of how good the players are on one side or the other. What about clan members being split into 2 different factions and them intentionally colluding to make one side win? You could also simply make this into an instanced event, where it is clan vs clan. Then also make it into an open event where people can join if they don't have a clan or their clan is deemed too small to have an impact.

Anybody who sits down and takes a look at what Lineage 2 has to offer can come up with ideas like this one. It's too easy. The main problem is this: You need an idea and you need someone who can actually code it. Unless you have someone who is on board with you that has the knowledge to make your ideas  become reality, you either need to fork out some insane money to hire someone, or you create the shitty copy+paste 10.000x rate servers.

 

Creating a really well made L2 server is a fuckton of work, creating one that also lasts is becoming harder and harder as the community gets smaller. An MMORPG is a complex piece of work, each and every system you want to introduce or change or reduce is going to affect something else elsewhere gameplaywise and "how it is going to feel".

 

But all in all, short answer is: Modernize the systems built into the game. Remove unnecessary steps when it comes to enhancing, life stone enhancing, buying, selling, teleporting, potion usage, skill usage, buffs, learning skills. L2 is old and annoying when it comes to navigating.

[Mr_Zero]

Again, the purpose is to highlight features, mechanics, and general modernizations to this old, niche game. Things that you've witnessed and enjoyed, or to suggest things that you'd like to see as a player that fall under this "trend" or "segment", that we've witnessed in the private scene recently. 

The reason is pretty simple; people who are capable of doing these things might read it, or those who have "insane money", as you said, might seek those who can to do it for them. That's all there is to it. 
 

Personally, I'm a huge advocate of these servers and I'd like to see more of them. The game is old, the niche is real, sure, but the blends these projects bring to the table are often incredibly fun or make a lot of sense, at least to me. So I want more of it. 

Example, Valhalla-Age introducing 7 slots for a full party in a nostalgic game-play setting is great, imo. It really makes a lot of sense; especially now, post-lockdowns, with an aging audiance. It's becoming exceedingly difficult to get a consistent group of 9 people to play together. Or you get like 5-6 people you actually like, and another 5-6 you can beraly tolerate, lol. 

E-Global merging the Bladedancer/Swordsinger (at least the buffs they provide), makes a lot of sense too. 

DEX introducing a Talent-Tree system that leads to unlocking new skills, in a nostalgic game-play setting without Kamaels, again, really cool. Lots of people will dig that, I'm sure. 

Lineage2.gold taking an old, niche (yet popular) game-style and giving it a new breath of life by modernizing it is a good thing. 

Introducing stages in order to prolong server life-spans, and gradually release content in order to emulate the sensation of chronicle progression. Cool. 

Projects in general modernizing their servers to newer clients so we don't lag at baium like morons. Awesome. Can we get more of this please?
 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Mr_Zero

[Blitzkrieg]

Interesting thread.

 

I'm personally fascinated by innovations brought to low/med rates servers. For example the russian servers' features you mentioned.

 

I'd like to see new questlines, new instances and raids with upgraded AI that require certain skill (not gear!) to take down and finish with maximum reward, events that follow the traditional oldschool retail way (and not some crappy auto tvt event). But all of that requires tons of effort (..and money) to properly implement them.

 

The world of lineage 2 provides tons of space to turn something trivial and overplayed, such as varka/ketra quests like mentioned, into something completely unique, no matter the client that is used.

 

All abovementtioned be applied to PTS assemblies only of course.

[Trance]

@Mr_Zero- I completely agree with you.

There are servers that are trying and probably managed to create a new server area. Each chronicle has its pros and cons and this is the only way to go beyond certain limits - a customized version of the game.

 

Most private server communities prefer the gameplay on Interlude and High Five and why not mix the chronicles instead, using the latest chronicle that can provide endless features.

 

@Xtellia- The most disgusting thing I've seen in recent years is Interlude with a customized interface and other features implemented that makes it feel and look like shit. Interlude is not meant to be customized.

 

@splicho- The term "reworked" is really exaggerated (for some) and this makes some tremble. Sometimes we have to break our ego and not just jump with hate because one word means something else.

For example, the idea behind the lineage2.gold project was to try to get the players to let the interlude go. And, in my opinion, the best option was to offer them a gameplay similar to Interlude (at least the skill-tree). I am driven by the players - their opinion matters a lot to me. Another thing, players can't donate for weapons, armors or jewelry. Even if the server has customized items, every time there's a new season, I'm trying to delay the customized items as much as possible, so we can have s-grade items for longer > YouTube.

I wish I could do one "reworked" server myself but I don't have enough time for that, and no team, at the moment I'm one-man-army, which is not easy.

I'm occasionally reading other servers' change logs - great stuff. Definitely something to look into.

[911reg]

Well, i'm not trying to 'suck my own dick' here nor anything like that, nor trying to publicize my stuff, but...
i'd like to get some insight on the stuff that we (the people working on this project) are working on. 

Since we made everything from scratch, from the simplest to the most complex stuff, i'd say it's a complete rework.

 

[Romotheone]

What L2Bellion did is nothing short of amazing, at least from the way it was presented. But creating all those fancy item/skill descriptions with the added stats onto items means little when it's not implemented into the gameplay properly. If I had all that and simply setup a zone and said "here, kill monsters and you unlock all these features over time", players would hang themselves and all the hard work would have been for nothing. There are so many interesting things you can do with simple lines provided even by default L2J.

Spawn an NPC that has no texture but a floating name. Set collision height to match water levels, then simply make players walk close to it to consume "Empty Bottle" and create "Bottle filled with water".

 

    <skill id="40064" levels="1" name="Collect Water">
        <set name="create_item_count" val="1" />
        <set name="create_item_id" val="65290" />
        <set name="itemConsumeId" val="65199" />
        <set name="itemConsumeCount" val="1" />                
        <set name="isMagic" val="true" />
        <set name="operateType" val="OP_ACTIVE" />
        <set name="hitTime" val="2000" />
        <set name="reuseDelay" val="4000" />
        <set name="staticReuse" val="true" />
        <set name="staticHitTime" val="true" />            
        <set name="skillType" val="CREATE_ITEM" />
        <set name="target" val="TARGET_ONE" />
        <cond msgId="113" addName="1">
            <and>
                <not>
                    <target mindistance="100" />
                </not>
                <target npcId="65179" />
            </and>
        </cond>        
    </skill>   

 

 

You can use the same method to force players to summon mobs/bosses at a certain place. This summoned monster/boss disappears after 5 minutes of not being killed.

 

    <skill id="40061" levels="1" name="Summoning Totem">
        <set name="itemConsumeCount" val="1" />
        <set name="target" val="TARGET_ONE" />
        <set name="skillType" val="SPAWN" />            
        <set name="operateType" val="OP_ACTIVE" />
        <set name="hitTime" val="4000" />
        <set name="staticHitTime" val="true" />
        <set name="reuseDelay" val="2000" />
        <set name="npcId" val="65167" />
        <set name="despawnDelay" val="300000" />
        <set name="isSummonSpawn" val="true" />    
        <cond msgId="113" addName="1">
            <and>
                <not>
                    <target mindistance="300" />
                </not>
                <target npcId="65165" />
            </and>
        </cond>    
    </skill>

 

 

Using the exact same method I am also going to create an animal hunting system on my server and expand upon it by adding depth to it. I add a simple bow with a skill that can only be used on  <target npcId="xxxxx" />, which is going to be some small elpy. Then I allow the player to hunt these elpys, collect loot from them, perhaps even spoil extra exclusive loot from them and then use this to buy the next, better bow with AOE skill. What if this skill can only be used on a certain NPC that cannot move or be killed (L2NpcWalker type NPCs allows the usage of "target npcID" skills on them. So the player has to lure the wolves to this NPC to kill them.         <set name="power" val="99999999" /> while the PVP damage is just 1 so it doesn't get abused.   <set name="pvpPower" val="1" />

 

There are so many things you can combine and do in this game's packs without having to pay a coder brutal money to do stuff for you. Surely it depends from pack to pack what tools already exist, but the possibilities are so wide that I really do not understand how basic default l2j servers can exist without adding content to the 1000 years old game that would make it fresh, or the very least something else than "TITANIUM SET +200% ATTACK SPEED".

Edited October 22, 2021 by Romotheone

[911reg]

3 hours ago, Romotheone said:

If I had all that and simply setup a zone and said "here, kill monsters and you unlock all these features over time", players would hang themselves and all the hard work would have been for nothing

couldn't agree more with this, i honestly can't get myself to understand how people unironically enjoy '2-week-mid-low rate retail-like servers' nowadays, it's always the same stuff, same classes, same items, same farming, same mechanics... it's honestly just lame af

[Imhereforonepost]

Anything that would incorporate factually working anticheats, antibots, anti-dualbox software and populate the world with quest-giving trust-related neural AI agents working as NPC's. 


Given all the bot libraries people have on their disks, I'm surprised NCSoft or anyone else in hold of the client files didn't gather all of them scripts and hacks to actually propel a roleplaying server with roleplaying AI characters - especially given GPT-3 and reinforced learning. If the p[l]ayer vs AI dynamics would change in dependance on how many real players there are, you could have an always populated server without any bots. 

The main rule is, the AI never deliberately participates with a real player until at least one of the sides has a significant advantagement ingame. Your main goal as a clan wouldn't be having as many bots or as many donators on your side, but rather, outsmarting the ingame AI. 

Now, excuse me, but knowing how gameplay scripted all the games are, I'm just dissapoint at where the money goes, and seeing the "new Lineage teasers".