[L2J] L2Helios

[YeahThePro]

1 hour ago, splicho said:

Why you not reward them with simply in game currency/farm coin, whatever stuff? I think we both know that when you PAY clans with REAL CASH will attract them more to join your server than rewarding them with in game stuff.

 

You can't deny that, otherwise you wouldn't do it. Also, the comparison with the football player statement is kinda obnoxious because football teams play in leagues where they can win trophies. Why do they get paid tho? Because they have sponsors, for example. Sponsors are paying teams that play good because they're representing the sponsor in a well position, and teams paying their players, and they get a cut because win/win situation in this case.

 

Do you understand the difference ?

 

Again, your suggestion is to boost a specific amount of players/clans in-game with gear. We will never do that. The same way we will not offer money for a clan just to join our server. A clan that can donate the money back into the server and get a massive head start, whereas earning money 1 week into the server from events will not give an in-game advantage as our item/service related donations will be balanced based on the server's stage.

 

17 minutes ago, splicho said:

I think you both guys don't understand what I try to say here. Of course, it's his money and his budget and his decision what he's going to do with it.

 

All those posts I made in this topic are based on my own opinion and how I think about this whole fuckery, paying clans to play your server. Why paying clans when you have the option to attract people based on your server concept? Paying clans to play your server sounds to me like you're trying hard to get players because you can't attract them otherwise.

 

Let's be real, CLANS will have a bigger will to join your server when they get REAL CASH instead of something different. And that is the main reason why people choose to pay clans, right? 

 

And that's obviously not "unique" like you said earlier, because this is what all servers do nowadays. Do you even know what means "unique"? If not, let me explain it to you.

 

Unique means, being the only one of its kind. For example, your feature about the weapons from higher chronicles which has never been seen before on any interlude project is unique, because it has never been seen before. But paying clans instead isn't, so you can't consider this as unique.

 

You keep trying to convince people that paying clans to JOIN is the same as rewarding WINNERS who play your server anyway and are part of your community. You need to learn to ignore your bias and try and understand what others tell you.

 

Is money reward system a strong motive for people to play ? Yes. But will people get this reward just for joining ? No. This will simply motivate the people who actually want to play the game competitively to try harder to win by building strong sides, actively farming to outgear their enemies and so on. Basically give life to the server.

 

Paying clans just to join will result in leaders recruiting any kind of cps without caring much about activity and gear as long as they show up at epics and collect their weekly check.

 

If you still can't understand the massive difference between these 2 cases, then this discussion is pointless.

Edited November 27, 2021 by YeahThePro

[`Son]

Hey @splicho, i hold up an ugly Pac-Man MMO which is defo garbage, however in case you win a match you'll be rewarded with cash. Does this make Pac-Man more interesting to you now? 

 

 

[MrTitanas]

Guys chill, let the time show what’s gonna be

[Vision]

If you continue play with your "what is inside of your pants" I will clear anything that have hatred or what ever.

[YeahThePro]

4 minutes ago, Vision said:

If you continue play with your "what is inside of your pants" I will clear anything that have hatred or what ever.

 

Don't worry it's fine. I don't mind people challenging a feature of the project. If someone crosses the line I will report it myself. I'm open to debate and discuss otherwise.

[Vision]

25 minutes ago, YeahThePro said:

 

Don't worry it's fine. I don't mind people challenging a feature of the project. If someone crosses the line I will report it myself. I'm open to debate and discuss otherwise.

 

Alright patience is a good thing to have. 

Take care.

[Romotheone]

I understand what @splichois trying to point to and I also understand the difference between what @YeahTheProis defending here. Disregarding what is actually being talked about here, splichos combative reaction does suggest personal feelings towards you or your server.

 

Now to the topic being discussed. In the end, paying upfront or paying afterwards leads to the same conclusion. It is a motivating factor to many, especially to clans/alliances that are confident and big enough to win. In the end, you are rewarding the biggest/strongest clans for playing on your server and a parallel can be made to just straight up paying them. They simply risk more by being payed based on their performance afterwards and not initially upfront.

 

However, while the motivational factor does make a difference, it still does lead to the same conclusion. The best and biggest clans were previously getting payed proportionally based on their numbers and exposure they could bring with how many members they can round-up to win now.

 

Essentially, theoretically, respectfully... you are walking down on one of the 2 slightly different paths leading to the same destination, your path being easier to morally defend than the other.

 

On a personal note. I am more of a fan of this method, while I despise the upfront payment.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Romotheone

[YeahThePro]

16 hours ago, Romotheone said:

I understand what @splichois trying to point to and I also understand the difference between what @YeahTheProis defending here. Disregarding what is actually being talked about here, splichos combative reaction does suggest personal feelings towards you or your server.

 

Now to the topic being discussed. In the end, paying upfront or paying afterwards leads to the same conclusion. It is a motivating factor to many, especially to clans/alliances that are confident and big enough to win. In the end, you are rewarding the biggest/strongest clans for playing on your server and a parallel can be made to just straight up paying them. They simply risk more by being payed based on their performance afterwards and not initially upfront.

 

However, while the motivational factor does make a difference, it still does lead to the same conclusion. The best and biggest clans were previously getting payed proportionally based on their numbers and exposure they could bring with how many members they can round-up to win now.

 

Essentially, theoretically, respectfully... you are walking down on one of the 2 slightly different paths leading to the same destination, your path being easier to morally defend than the other.

 

On a personal note. I am more of a fan of this method, while I despise the upfront payment.

 

The difference isn't paying upfront or at the end of each week. The major difference is that paying clans to join, leads to leaders making random weak sides who play just for money and creates an extremely toxic fake competition in-game (i.e. l2 dex, e-global, valhalla and this kind of servers). Paying clans just to join absolutely kills the rivalry between them as there are no real losers and winners. Everyone gets paid at the end of every week so who cares right ?

 

Rewarding the winners with cash gives a massive motive to the leaders to create strong sides and try their best to win without giving any advantage to any clan (unlike paying people to join and basically giving them free premiums and whatnot). In this case, there will always be losers and winners and the rivalry will be kept alive.

 

I hope that clears up the massive difference between the 2 scenarios. Look at all those big russian servers. No1 makes fraps flaming about which side is better. Everyone cares about daily 9v9s or organized ones. There is no clan identity anymore because leaders simply don't care. They have been so detached from the clan's identity that most of the times the leader's CP holds a different name to the side's. This is a very important point to think about. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by YeahThePro

[aLzhite]

not mentioning about gameplay but trying to have retail balance on acis gonna be a big problem. im 100% sure that the server gonna fail for this delusional idea. even in best scenario, if everything goes well, l2 itself designed without mana potions and limited buff times. so in general; with full buffs and unlimited mana potions, most of the classes will be over powered e.g duelist, grand khavatari. imagine a tyrant/glad goes aoe fight in full retail balance. a single glad can take over a party without its cp been decreased. there was a reason that those classes being nerfed in servers where you have access on mana potions and full buffs. not even talking about dagger classes' full retail formulas in l2j acis. you cant even compare l2off's and acis' movement system. that means in l2off, lets say in 5 seconds you can use 5 skills, in acis you can bypass the limit with its bad optimized movement system and possibly can spam 10 skills in that timeline. both, retail values and having to work on acis is a bad idea.

[Romotheone]

12 minutes ago, aLzhite said:

not mentioning about gameplay but trying to have retail balance on acis gonna be a big problem. im 100% sure that the server gonna fail for this delusional idea. even in best scenario, if everything goes well, l2 itself designed without mana potions and limited buff times. so in general; with full buffs and unlimited mana potions, most of the classes will be over powered e.g duelist, grand khavatari. imagine a tyrant/glad goes aoe fight in full retail balance. a single glad can take over a party without its cp been decreased. there was a reason that those classes being nerfed in servers where you have access on mana potions and full buffs. not even talking about dagger classes' full retail formulas in l2j acis. you cant even compare l2off's and acis' movement system. that means in l2off, lets say in 5 seconds you can use 5 skills, in acis you can bypass the limit with its bad optimized movement system and possibly can spam 10 skills in that timeline. both, retail values and having to work on acis is a bad idea.

I was sitting here, thinking long and hard about where to begin or how to properly adress this post, but the only thing I can say is... "?"

Edited November 29, 2021 by Romotheone

[YeahThePro]

16 minutes ago, aLzhite said:

not mentioning about gameplay but trying to have retail balance on acis gonna be a big problem. im 100% sure that the server gonna fail for this delusional idea. even in best scenario, if everything goes well, l2 itself designed without mana potions and limited buff times. so in general; with full buffs and unlimited mana potions, most of the classes will be over powered e.g duelist, grand khavatari. imagine a tyrant/glad goes aoe fight in full retail balance. a single glad can take over a party without its cp been decreased. there was a reason that those classes being nerfed in servers where you have access on mana potions and full buffs. not even talking about dagger classes' full retail formulas in l2j acis. you cant even compare l2off's and acis' movement system. that means in l2off, lets say in 5 seconds you can use 5 skills, in acis you can bypass the limit with its bad optimized movement system and possibly can spam 10 skills in that timeline. both, retail values and having to work on acis is a bad idea.

 

Our pack is based on - latest - acis rev with our own updates. What you're describing is old, garbage outdated acis revs that were indeed as bad as you're describing. Our formulas are 100% retail and yes, that means the classes you mentioned are strong, but at the same time you're forgetting that the same goes for all classes. Welcome to Interlude where all classes are very strong unlike H5 where all classes couldn't solo kill anyone in mass pvp unless the target was massively cancelled.

 

Skill spam is based on skill re-use formulas and atk speed which are also retail on our files. Also skill cooltime which is something only people who bother with skilldata are aware of. The files you're talking about are extremely outdated.

 

You completely forgot about mages and their retail MC rate and multiplier on Interlude which was indeed the most broken class on the client. You could google L2 Teon interlude forum archives and people talking about that sph "progamer" (from ITT side) who once obtained valakas + passive wild magic he was nearly 100% mcriting (x4) and solo-ing parties by himself with a single support behind him. I'm pretty sure if you youtube search "progamer l2" or "progamer lineage" you will find a few ridiculous videos of him.

 

Ah forgot to mention that the OBT is live and available for you to run your own tests. If you test something and think it's not retail like, THEN you can come to me and report it. Right now you're assuming based on information from 5 years ago.

 

4 minutes ago, Romotheone said:

I was sitting here, thinking long and hard about where to begin or how to properly adress this post, but the only thing I can say is... "?"

 

His post would make sense back in 2016-17 probably

Edited November 29, 2021 by YeahThePro

[aLzhite]

i know acis  even its devs are refusing the problems the pack itself has and im not giving any fix list in order them/you to fix, im abusing them in the servers that im playing. what im generally saying is; even those classes are op in l2off, how come u fix those issues by the pack itself? it doesnt matter how updated the pack is, im actively playing the servers that been opening with most recent files. anyway, i dont have to test anything on the server, just log-in any l2off server and try surrender, vortex and hydro blast/prominence/hurricane to any npc and then test the same thing on acis to see urself. or easiest way; log l2off, get a cardinal, greater battle heal to urself and then test the same thing on acis

[Trance]

aCis is not that bad in terms of Formulas anymore.

[Amenadiel]

On 11/28/2021 at 6:52 PM, YeahThePro said:

 

The difference isn't paying upfront or at the end of each week. The major difference is that paying clans to join, leads to leaders making random weak sides who play just for money and creates an extremely toxic fake competition in-game (i.e. l2 dex, e-global, valhalla and this kind of servers). Paying clans just to join absolutely kills the rivalry between them as there are no real losers and winners. Everyone gets paid at the end of every week so who cares right ?

 

Rewarding the winners with cash gives a massive motive to the leaders to create strong sides and try their best to win without giving any advantage to any clan (unlike paying people to join and basically giving them free premiums and whatnot). In this case, there will always be losers and winners and the rivalry will be kept alive.

 

I hope that clears up the massive difference between the 2 scenarios. Look at all those big russian servers. No1 makes fraps flaming about which side is better. Everyone cares about daily 9v9s or organized ones. There is no clan identity anymore because leaders simply don't care. They have been so detached from the clan's identity that most of the times the leader's CP holds a different name to the side's. This is a very important point to think about. 

Said the guy that asked money to play on my projects.....

[YeahThePro]

2 hours ago, aLzhite said:

i know acis  even its devs are refusing the problems the pack itself has and im not giving any fix list in order them/you to fix, im abusing them in the servers that im playing. what im generally saying is; even those classes are op in l2off, how come u fix those issues by the pack itself? it doesnt matter how updated the pack is, im actively playing the servers that been opening with most recent files. anyway, i dont have to test anything on the server, just log-in any l2off server and try surrender, vortex and hydro blast/prominence/hurricane to any npc and then test the same thing on acis to see urself. or easiest way; log l2off, get a cardinal, greater battle heal to urself and then test the same thing on acis

 

I did not ask you to give me solutions to problems of the files. I asked you to point out a specific problem on -MY- server and not acis rev from 2017 or even 2020 that was garbage. 

 

You literally just admitted that your only experience is random servers left and right no1 knows of. Again, our pack is based on acis, but there's been massive updates on top of it which is not acis anymore but more of our own "extender". I did share a lot of those formulas with tryskell of course, but there's multiple things missing from the retail acis pack, especially in skilldata.

 

And this is where you show that you're a complete moron. You talk about surrender casting as if we haven't fixed that already on our pack. You don't even need to log on my server to see this, it's on youtube in the video showcasing our auto-farm. The reason why surrender is "slow cast" on acis is because they based it on advext (l2off btw) which is GF core and not C4/interlude like vanganth is. So when you say l2off, you need to specify which one. There's C4 core (vanganth) and GF core (advext).

 

These are issues we fixed literally 1 year ago just so a random guy like you can come on the forum and claim our pack has those issues without even logging on our beta that is freely available. Hope you understand how ridiculous you sound.

 

Video with surrender casting like retail on our pack: [Sped up version, You can slow it down]
 

 

1 hour ago, Trance said:

aCis is not that bad in terms of Formulas anymore.

 

Yep, and thank god tryskell upped the price so not every entitled kid can get their hands on them =]

 

29 minutes ago, Hypest said:

Said the guy that asked money to play on my projects.....

 

I don't know who you are, but if your server wasn't worth playing, then maybe paying was the only option. I see many admins who are sour in this topic. Sad.