Discussion Attributes on weapons on Interlude as content update

[YeahThePro]

If you want to know more details regarding the upcoming server, read this topic: 

 

[Celestine]

well my vote goes to yes because interlude is a limited client and something new will always bring the interest.

[YeahThePro]

18 hours ago, Celestine said:

well my vote goes to yes because interlude is a limited client and something new will always bring the interest.

 

I've never seen an interlude server with attributes and after a little research, I found out how to make it work properly. I myself am a big fan of gradual content updates because as u said, interlude's end-game comes very fast, even on low-rates, therefore some updates from higher chronicles would make it very interesting in my opinion while keeping the client and balance the same-ish. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by YeahThePro

[xdem]

then why not use a later client, interlude doesnt suppor elements client side

 

[YeahThePro]

22 minutes ago, xdem said:

then why not use a later client, interlude doesnt suppor elements client side

 

 

Later clients use a different engine. c3-c4-c5-IL use the same one which is giving that original L2 feeling. GF/H5 are horrible clients gameplay wise. A very good example is l2dex's "interlude server" on H5 client. Horrible engine and massive issues with fps. Also target system is the best on old engine.

 

That being said, you can add whatever you want on IL client as long as you have a creative dev and a good java dev. I've already tested it and it works just fine. Of course, you will not be adding attribute stones the same way you do on GF/H5 etc by right clicking on the stone like enchanting. Instead, you will farm the stones and exchange them for lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3 etc attributed weapon in the shop (upgrade mechanic).

 

I think it's a very interesting scenario because especially on mages with 2 attributes (sps and sph) you can only choose 1 attribute on the weapon which is gonna boost only 1 of the 2 elements. For fighters, choosing attribute won't matter, since holy will be the best option as u can stack holy weapon + dance of light, unless we eventually decide to add armor attributes too, which means that if robe targets stack holy attribute on armor, then that's a horrible choice. 

 

All in all, it's a very interesting late-late game update we can implement.

Edited May 31, 2022 by YeahThePro

[An4rchy]

49 minutes ago, YeahThePro said:

 

Later clients use a different engine. c3-c4-c5-IL use the same one which is giving that original L2 feeling. GF/H5 are horrible clients gameplay wise.

 

Is this a joke or? Check L2Reborn which is the most successful server in years, they're using Classic client and it's more optimized and well-made in every single aspect of the game. That 'old engine' (they're both unreal 2) you speak of is laggy and was made during windows xp era. Servers need to move on to newer technologies as players got bored already.

Edited May 31, 2022 by An4rchy

[Trance]

Why not.

 
You can use it as a learning curve.
Try to implement every new or improved idea that comes to mind.

You won't know if the players like it until you try.
 

Interlude is not meant to be customized in the first place.

I will never open an Interlude client again (I bet many others think so), the way it moves is mediocre compared to the new chronicles.

Interlude vs. New Chronicles is the same as Windows XP vs.  Windows 7 and later.  Eventually you will let it die. Sooner is better.
 

Take this advice from someone who have played this game since 2006 and developed it for the first time in 2008/9: Try new chronicles and work on them. Interlude is a BIG waste of time.

 

I could say more details, but I hate to do it on the phone.  I left Lineage 2 behind in 2012 and Classic is the only reason I came back (partially) to it in 2020.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Trance

[YeahThePro]

4 hours ago, An4rchy said:

 

Is this a joke or? Check L2Reborn which is the most successful server in years, they're using Classic client and it's more optimized and well-made in every single aspect of the game. That 'old engine' (they're both unreal 2) you speak of is laggy and was made during windows xp era. Servers need to move on to newer technologies as players got bored already.

 

Reborn isn't the most successful server first of all. Even if it was, the client wouldn't be the reason, same way it isn't the reason why people play it. Reborn is using a pack that is extremely faulty with debuffs landing on fully stacked resists (including full epics) due to the pack they are using. People do NOT CARE about the quality of a project, it's all about marketing. The same reason l2dex had a bright moment, but is now dead. Do you think all these people played l2dex because of the client ? H5 client is fully garbage FPS and target-wise, not to mention since it's l2off files, the debuff formula is clown fiesta when you try to go for interlude gameplay.

 

No, it's laggy as in 1 year ago with my beast CPU/GPU that don't really matter because L2 uses single-core power and GPU is nearly irrelevant.

 

The client isn't the point of this topic. I have decided to make a nostalgic server, as close to retail interlude as possible, with content updates from higher chronicles over time, but only for PVE and items. If people want to play another client, then this is not the project for them.

 

3 hours ago, Trance said:

Why not.

 
You can use it as a learning curve.
Try to implement every new or improved idea that comes to mind.

You won't know if the players like it until you try.
 

Interlude is not meant to be customized in the first place.

I will never open an Interlude client again (I bet many others think so), the way it moves is mediocre compared to the new chronicles.

Interlude vs. New Chronicles is the same as Windows XP vs.  Windows 7 and later.  Eventually you will let it die. Sooner is better.
 

Take this advice from someone who have played this game since 2006 and developed it for the first time in 2008/9: Try new chronicles and work on them. Interlude is a BIG waste of time.

 

I could say more details, but I hate to do it on the phone.  I left Lineage 2 behind in 2012 and Classic is the only reason I came back (partially) to it in 2020.

 

Well, I guess I don't want to rush any decision and waste massive amount of hours and money implementing it when most players won't like it. That's the reason why I made this topic. Implementing this system will take days of work just for myself. 

 

I do understand the upsides of classic client, but if FPS isn't a problem on my project, then I won't bother with migrating to it. Classic offers only 2 things; 1) Possibly better FPS in mass pvp 2) a lot more options for accessories such as cloaks

 

Movement/textures feel very amateurish and "jumpy". Moving on classic feels like you're constantly on 30 FPS refresh rate (best example I can give). IL is so much smoother as long as your FPS don't go to hell because of multiple custom files people put in their client.

[An4rchy]

10 hours ago, YeahThePro said:

 

Reborn isn't the most successful server first of all. Even if it was, the client wouldn't be the reason, same way it isn't the reason why people play it.

 

Reborn is the most successful server of the last 5 years, and you can't argue that. I didn't say it's the most successful server in the history of L2.

 

10 hours ago, YeahThePro said:

Movement/textures feel very amateurish and "jumpy". Moving on classic feels like you're constantly on 30 FPS refresh rate (best example I can give). IL is so much smoother as long as your FPS don't go to hell because of multiple custom files people put in their client.

 

Perhaps you've been playing another game claiming that Interlude is smoother than Classic XD. It's not even close. Interlude is old, textures/lighting/animations are outdated and the performance is terrible if there's more than 30 players in your screen. Please try playing 50 vs 50 in Interlude and 50 vs 50 in Classic.

 

In L2Reborn, we played 140 vs 150 in Antharas with very few fps drops. If you disabled skill effects and soulshot effects there were barely any issues, apart from networking issues which eventually got fixed.

 

Reborn formulas are not good, but they're not bad. They're the same formulas L2 servers have been using for the past 10 years. Unless you put your formulas to test with multiple people, you can't claim you've made a 'balanced' server since 'balance' was never a thing NCSoft achieved with Interlude. Daggers were absolutely broken, archers hitting for 6k without blessing of queen, MC rate of SPS was ridiculous, not to mention the damage. So you can't say a server isn't successful because their formulas are not retail like. Hell, I wouldn't even want retail like formulas in a mid-rate server, shit would be totally broken.

 

Please make a poll asking players about which client they prefer for an Interlude server. I bet it wouldn't even be close.

Edited June 1, 2022 by An4rchy

[xdem]

you dont need a good java dev to copy paste the attribute system from a later l2jserver, this is the simple part, elemental stones are not right clickable like scrolls fyi you need to visit the NPC even on later chronicles.

 

interlude is not a good engine, H5 is superior, interlude just gives you some nostalgia the first minutes of gameplay after a few hours your soon sick of it, its like opening your old gameboy to play pokemon red

[YeahThePro]

5 hours ago, An4rchy said:

 

Reborn is the most successful server of the last 5 years, and you can't argue that. I didn't say it's the most successful server in the history of L2.

 

 

Perhaps you've been playing another game claiming that Interlude is smoother than Classic XD. It's not even close. Interlude is old, textures/lighting/animations are outdated and the performance is terrible if there's more than 30 players in your screen. Please try playing 50 vs 50 in Interlude and 50 vs 50 in Classic.

 

In L2Reborn, we played 140 vs 150 in Antharas with very few fps drops. If you disabled skill effects and soulshot effects there were barely any issues, apart from networking issues which eventually got fixed.

 

Reborn formulas are not good, but they're not bad. They're the same formulas L2 servers have been using for the past 10 years. Unless you put your formulas to test with multiple people, you can't claim you've made a 'balanced' server since 'balance' was never a thing NCSoft achieved with Interlude. Daggers were absolutely broken, archers hitting for 6k without blessing of queen, MC rate of SPS was ridiculous, not to mention the damage. So you can't say a server isn't successful because their formulas are not retail like. Hell, I wouldn't even want retail like formulas in a mid-rate server, shit would be totally broken.

 

Please make a poll asking players about which client they prefer for an Interlude server. I bet it wouldn't even be close.

 

Are you completely ignoring russian servers on purpose ? valhalla is a much more successful project, so is eglobal. Reborn (low-rate) is a project for casual players. Again, that is not relevant to classic client, or the topic.

 

lmao. "if you disabled this and that". Well, excuse me, but if you disable AOE, SS, shadows and use good skillgrp and fire.dll (the one that doesn't keep the game focused while alt tabbed) then IL has 0 fps issues as well. Then, some admins with bad files in order to eliminate fps issues, they set a max range of players that are able to see effects around them. For example, you can only see effects at 200* radius and so on. Same can be done with how far you can see textures and players.

 

Disabling things to have good FPS does not mean the client is smooth, it is what it is and can be done on any client.

 

It's not only the formulas themselves, but the badly coded files that do not follow the math logic L2 followed on those old chronicles. I'm not sure how daggers were broken on retail ? You literally deleted daggers through 4-5 mana burns lmao. Also there was no gap-closer (shadow step) on IL or hide. Archers on IL are garbage on late-late game compared to mages. On IL death whisper buffs (wc/ol too) and dance of fire were nerfed down to 35% crt dmg each from 50% from previous chronicles. Combine that with 500 pdef from valor and there u have it. The only ACTUAL broken issue on interlude retail was wild magic augments + MC rate. Mages hitting x4 times their damage at an 100% rate while fully stacked was a joke. If an archer hits you for 6k without cat buff, then consider buffing pdef buffs, use a shield and adv block and dont turn ur back to a fully geared with baium/qa archer while ure on +3 DC set. 

 

Retail interlude didn't last long, therefore people didn't get to see the clown fiesta created by x2 WM + valakas and FOI fiesta. That being said, balancing this issue is easy. We already made FOI GF/H5 like (lose effect upon attack/skill) and wild magic augments will be re-adjusted.

 

But again, why did this discussion turn into a client debate ? It's about attributes on interlude

2 hours ago, xdem said:

you dont need a good java dev to copy paste the attribute system from a later l2jserver, this is the simple part, elemental stones are not right clickable like scrolls fyi you need to visit the NPC even on later chronicles.

 

interlude is not a good engine, H5 is superior, interlude just gives you some nostalgia the first minutes of gameplay after a few hours your soon sick of it, its like opening your old gameboy to play pokemon red

 

Pretty sure on H5 we clicked the stones to add attributes on the weapons  Only reason you visit an NPC is to exchange stones. 

 

Interlude's engine is better gameplay wise. Optimization wise, it's bad, but not worse than H5. The worst FPS I've ever had was on H5 engine, 2nd worse was GF and then IL. 

 

If we debate pure FPS in mass pvp it's like this: classic > IL > GF > H5

[An4rchy]

6 hours ago, YeahThePro said:

 

Interlude's engine is better gameplay wise. Optimization wise, it's bad, but not worse than H5. The worst FPS I've ever had was on H5 engine, 2nd worse was GF and then IL. 

 

If we debate pure FPS in mass pvp it's like this: classic > IL > GF > H5

I honestly cannot get where you are seeing this. Even Kamael client was far better than Interlude performance wise - feeling wise. Much smoother. Idk, perhaps you like how it looks or something but I'm pretty sure I speak for 99% of L2 players.

[YeahThePro]

3 hours ago, An4rchy said:

I honestly cannot get where you are seeing this. Even Kamael client was far better than Interlude performance wise - feeling wise. Much smoother. Idk, perhaps you like how it looks or something but I'm pretty sure I speak for 99% of L2 players.

 

My FPS counter says so having played on all those countless times. 

 

Edit: So I just ran a 30 minute test (15 minutes per client) on classic (l2reborn) and interlude (my server) and you will be surprised by the results =>

 

classic client [L2 Reborn]:

21% cpu 

635 mb ram 

32-35% gpu 

118-136 fps [up to 162 with 1 skillbar] 

gpu clock 900-1300 mhz 

memory clock 3505 mhz 

gpu power 33 watts 

gpu temp 50c

 

 

interlude client [L2 Helios]:

25% cpu 

333 mb ram 

20-56% gpu 

148-168 fps [up to 198 with 1 skillbar] 

gpu clock 1012 mhz 

memory clock 3505 mhz 

gpu power 31 watts 

gpu temp 44c

 

Environment: Both empty servers with the retail amount of camera zoom. Same spot, same character/class. Looking at the same spot.
Test lasted several minutes to avoid basing the test on random spikes. Both clients tested with lower details activated to avoid the debate on the settings.

 

The question now remains as to how those 2 servers will perform in mass pvp with 100-200 people at the same spot.

Edited June 2, 2022 by YeahThePro

[Trance]

The latest Interlude client patch was in 2012 (by/used by Vanganth?) which fixed several issues including animations - most servers don’t even use that latest Interlude patch along with the client - they simply use the original client. @xdemknows the most about Interlude vs. High Five client and what can be improved.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Trance

[YeahThePro]

19 hours ago, Trance said:

The latest Interlude client patch was in 2012 (by/used by Vanganth?) which fixed several issues including animations - most servers don’t even use that latest Interlude patch along with the client - they simply use the original client. @xdemknows the most about Interlude vs. High Five client and what can be improved.

 

I have the latest client patch downloaded but i haven't applied it to my files tbh. I'm not sure what is different about it so I haven't tried it yet despite having it for years. A romanian friend of mine had posted it many years ago (Outlaw. You might know him). 

 

I'm pretty sure, though, that what's most important, is editing skillgrp with the most basic fileedit (given the fact you're using retail client files and not some crazy fps-hungry interfaces and fire.dll/nosleep.dll). There's many tricks you can do, make the animation of AOE skills last 1/3 of the time or less, or delete them all together. It's important to delete spiritshots from soulshot.int file. Soulshots in my experience are not a problem, because 90%+ of the classes in mass pvp are mages/bps/ols.