Discussion Interlude Project

[Xeonc]

we lose like 2000+ players because of you fking extender. no chance to buy again advext!

many bugs and unskilled devs.

 

I do not agree with dawid.

its your point of view, you have all rights to it. Those time , when me make full AI decompilation and recompilation - for sure exists some problems, which was solved before your start and released on SVN, and problems was only there, you didn't reported any problems or crashes with core. Anyway we apologize about this situation

 

Few weeks ago you've contacted with us about crashes on Vanganth extenders, those time we was not able to help you some how , if this question is still actual for you - you can contact us for resolving

[001101]

@Xeonc: Please provide us (old Dawid´s clients) with some information about reaching new HW keys (in case of moving the files) and SVN access.

 

Some projects have their timeline and they cant afford any troubles on start bcse of new licencing system if you catch my point.

 

Thank you

 

P.S. Wish you luck during your deserved vacation Dawid ;)

[Xeonc]

@Xeonc: Please provide us (old Dawid´s clients) with some information about reaching new HW keys (in case of moving the files) and SVN access.

 

Some projects have their timeline and they cant afford any troubles on start bcse of new licencing system if you catch my point.

 

Thank you

 

P.S. Wish you luck during your deserved vacation Dawid ;)

 

Hello :)

 

You will not have any problems with moving to new licensing system, just new key generation principle will be implemented. Soon we will provide all details, when will finish preparatory works

[L2candy]

Hello :)

 

You will not have any problems with moving to new licensing system, just new key generation principle will be implemented. Soon we will provide all details, when will finish preparatory works

a very well motherfucker system  to generate license , you pay for every time requests , limits to the amount of players on your server, you pay up to breathe with them ... Bad idea Dawid! ( FR3DBR / HYPERFILTER / ADVTX46 TEAM! )

 

L2Candy it is my last interlude server !

[markwil]

I spoke with Dawid. For the updates you will have to speak with Advext ( licenses etc ). Until the last update of Vanganth (old pack ), Dawid will send the keys. So, stay chill :)

PS: Gracia Final source remains to Dawid.

[lordvenancio]

I want to know is if everybody we have the rev paid we will have to buy again or just pay to have the keys and the new updates!

[Xeonc]

Hello guys,

 

first part of integration was passed, and new Vanganth revision with Smart-guard support are ready. For old Vanganth customers - we will not charge any additional fees for going under our support - we just charge for 3 months subscription(46 USD), to have access to SVN, Help Desk and general support. Offer is available for all Vanganth customers who purchased extender or updates from Dawid later then Jan 2015

[sandeagle]

finally,the L2OFF devs changed to only one AdvExt64....i dont know if its better or more worse...

 

anyway,like Xeonc said,its better than David's project dead...hope AdvExt could made it more better...

 

In Fack i hate Smart Guard,its rly shit guard,i bought it but its not works for me.

[Anarchy]

yeah well advext doesn't allow competitors to smartguard to integrate with their extenders so it's smart or nada

[Xeonc]

yeah well advext doesn't allow competitors to smartguard to integrate with their extenders so it's smart or nada

Smart-guard proved their stability by time, and we can guarantee the quality of this solution. And CliExt we didn't cut, so who don't want to pay for Smart-guard, still can use CliExt as built-in protection

[Anarchy]

Smart-guard proved their stability by time, and we can guarantee the quality of this solution. And CliExt we didn't cut, so who don't want to pay for Smart-guard, still can use CliExt as built-in protection

Dude the only thing smartguard has proved by time is their inability to block bots effectively you can spin that bullshit all you want to your customers but the people with brains know it's bullshit man, your business model is about controlling what your customers can and can't do with the files they're paying for and you're sure as hell not going to allow competitors to smart into your system even for a single customer because that will undermine smartguard which you guys are most likely getting a kickback from for sales.

[Xeonc]

Dude the only thing smartguard has proved by time is their inability to block bots effectively you can spin that bullshit all you want to your customers but the people with brains know it's bullshit man, your business model is about controlling what your customers can and can't do with the files they're paying for and you're sure as hell not going to allow competitors to smart into your system even for a single customer because that will undermine smartguard which you guys are most likely getting a kickback from for sales.

You're right. But your understanding of situation is totally wrong. Any company, which make ANY mass product - provide to customers their vision of product, its impossible to make a software by "I-want-to-have-this-shit" request, and meet expectations of every customer. So you must only decide - can you accept it, or not. Otherwise there a tons of other teams which make different extenders and java builds, and you can easily find someone who will make directly what you want. Or you can do it by yourself

[Anarchy]

You're right. But your understanding of situation is totally wrong. Any company, which make ANY mass product - provide to customers their vision of product, its impossible to make a software by "I-want-to-have-this-shit" request, and meet expectations of every customer. So you must only decide - can you accept it, or not. Otherwise there a tons of other teams which make different extenders and java builds, and you can easily find someone who will make directly what you want. Or you can do it by yourself

Yes but there's a HUGE difference between "make a software by "I-want-to-have-this-shit" request" and locking down your ext with mod checks on l2server.exe to actively prevent your customers from seeking any outside services, whether they be ones you refuse to provide or ones you charge exorbitant prices for.

 

You can try to claim it's because you want to avoid compatibility issues or customers blaming your soft for bugs caused by other soft they are using but it's bullshit, you try lock out the competition as much as possible so you can charge as much as you want for inferior products (here i'm specifically referencing SmartGuard, I'm sure you've seen the pcoder/akumu news so please try to defend your partnership now I would love to see it).

 

I understand it's just business, that's how it works, but you have to take that in the context of this thread specifically. You're trying to claim that your taking over vanganth's interlude project is good for everyone and good for l2 but it's clearly not, it's good for you and no one else. I never had problems integrating any of my extenders with any of vanganth's products, he did not actively obstruct me in the ways which you do, you still don't stop me as I just made a launcher to inject the dll at runtime but that's besides the point, with you taking over vanganth's project my efforts will once again be obstructed, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

THAT is your business model, make it as hard as possible for your customers to take up outside services, instead of providing services which are better. That's shitty man, it's business yeah but it's shady assholey business which just reduces people's choice and brings down the quality of services available for everyone.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Anarchy

[Xeonc]

 

 

We don't have any lock in extender, we just protect it against any external injection. Our holywar is totally useless because of totally different position, in the same way we can dissuss what is better iOS or Android, who have totally different philosophy. Our goal - is full stability, good security and predicability of our product, and max clear product design. Our products could be run in live if few days after first installation and conception modifications, it could be reached only with full control. We don't make any problems for competitors who provide 3rd party services like Web,  Vote reward and so on, but we not let to anyone to work with engine.

 

On the other side - I know at least 1 way how protection could work without ANY injection in core engine at all.

 

Regarding our cooperation with SmartGuard. For us it didn't changed nothing. And I will explain why. First of all - Smart-guard is not our first partner with protection. PTS knew different times, many time enterprise standart was hGuard, until Hint not stopped its development, and lost motivation to make a new version. 1 time we tried to work with Kasha-Malaga protection, which was an expensive , bugged, useless piece of shit, 1,5 years we worked with other protection - and it also was a dissapointment , developer wasn't motivated for hard work, it never was able even to block freeware adrenaline. And then we started to work with Akumu and Smart-guard, in compare with all previous expirience - it is excelent and the most effective solution. I know that it almost don't block payed Adrenaline, but didn't knew the reason, but I honestly told that every time for any our customer, who decided to get protection, that the best choice is Smart-guard, and it almost can't block Adrenaline, and it was acceptable for them and for us. And now doesn't exist any public protection, which could block it, even Frost from Innova Systems.

 

As the end of discussion I want to tell, that I understand and respect your point of view, but can't accept it. There is no any product or company in the world which is perfect for all, we are perfect for those, who share our values, who don't - succesfully exist many our competitors who can offer product which will match your needs

[Anarchy]

We don't have any lock in extender, we just protect it against any external injection. Our holywar is totally useless because of totally different position, in the same way we can dissuss what is better iOS or Android, who have totally different philosophy. Our goal - is full stability, good security and predicability of our product, and max clear product design. Our products could be run in live if few days after first installation and conception modifications, it could be reached only with full control. We don't make any problems for competitors who provide 3rd party services like Web,  Vote reward and so on, but we not let to anyone to work with engine.

 

On the other side - I know at least 1 way how protection could work without ANY injection in core engine at all.

 

Regarding our cooperation with SmartGuard. For us it didn't changed nothing. And I will explain why. First of all - Smart-guard is not our first partner with protection. PTS knew different times, many time enterprise standart was hGuard, until Hint not stopped its development, and lost motivation to make a new version. 1 time we tried to work with Kasha-Malaga protection, which was an expensive , bugged, useless piece of shit, 1,5 years we worked with other protection - and it also was a dissapointment , developer wasn't motivated for hard work, it never was able even to block freeware adrenaline. And then we started to work with Akumu and Smart-guard, in compare with all previous expirience - it is excelent and the most effective solution. I know that it almost don't block payed Adrenaline, but didn't knew the reason, but I honestly told that every time for any our customer, who decided to get protection, that the best choice is Smart-guard, and it almost can't block Adrenaline, and it was acceptable for them and for us. And now doesn't exist any public protection, which could block it, even Frost from Innova Systems.

 

As the end of discussion I want to tell, that I understand and respect your point of view, but can't accept it. There is no any product or company in the world which is perfect for all, we are perfect for those, who share our values, who don't - succesfully exist many our competitors who can offer product which will match your needs

Well, you TRY to protect against external injection lol but it's a bit pathetic, either way, it's not a case of different position, it's a case of you trying to establish yourself in a position which is incompatible with your own stated business model. I'll take your example, it's like if iOS bought Android and then tried to claim that it's a good thing for all smart phone customers even though 1. Android customers generally don't like or want iOS 2. Monopolies are bad for everyone except the person holding the monopoly.

 

I find it interesting you talk of products with developers who lost motivation for new versions and not motivated for hard work, when SmartGuard has not changed since it's inception with the exception of cosmetic changes to the launcher and the fake fights back and forth with adrenaline which have been proven to be nothing more than a charade to fool consumers into buying a product which didn't actually fulfil it's intended purpose. There are multiple currently developed guard systems which not only actively block adrenaline and update for real when pcoder works around them, but which also do every other function of SmartGuard. Not only this, there are plenty of systems which don't actively block adrenaline but do everything else which SmartGuard does, and seeing how SmartGuard does not block adrenaline because of the pcoder/akumu relationship then we know those guards are equally as effective and yet you deny any attempt at cooperation with any system or developer, new or established. You words are empty sir.

 

 

But this will just go round and round in circles, you talk of "holy wars" but this is not a case of "vanganth extender vs advext extender", they're both shit and for different reasons but the reason this discussion is here is because you claim that your new stewardship of vanganth's project is respecting people's choice and good for vanganth's customers when it's not. It's good for you, no one else. People's choice is not respected, that choice is now gone, it's advext's way or fuck off and make your own. Vanganth respected people's choice to use outside developers for things he didn't provide, you don't.