How could be Lineage2.5 ?

[Tryskell]

Hi guys,

 

under that funny title, I would like you imagine how could be a version of Lineage developped by amators. UDK3 is downloadable for free, L2 meshs can be ripped and enhanced... So the only question stays : which gameplay would you like ?

 

As a pure oldschool MMO, there is simply no hope. See what is currently happening with Lineage2, whatever chronicle is added, servers keep staying empty. When oldschool was fun, oldschool doesn't work anymore. By oldschool, I mean the "korean farm" mechanism then too many MMOs are using.

 

There are many "cool" MMO mechanisms, the funniest so far and IMHO is the PvP system known as faction. You can see such mechanism in Rift, Aion, WoW... That system never get old and is a permanent way to enjoy the game.

 

You know as me leveling system is a problem. There shouldn't have leveling system as introduced on MMO since MMO beginning, as there can have an end (and so, make the player leaving as the goal is achieved). Gear shouldn't be a major goal, but a minor one, in the same way of thinking. Permanent death, roleplay stuff, that sort of thing. Quest system should be dropped, as no one fucking care reading them.

 

To make it short, debate and discuss about any feature of any MMO which could be added - in harmony - on Lineage universe.

 

PS : I simply gather ideas. Perhaps it will stay at ideas, perhaps not.

[Copyleft]

One of the big thing that defines what type of MMO the game you are playing is, is how strong your impact can be on the server for the rest of the players. Saying this, you clearly won't achieve anything of importance alone. So you have to pretty much decide if you want a clan-driven server or a faction one. Clan based means limited resources, constant drama, server domination as an objective, and people quitting because of it. Faction usually means that your actions don't really affect the server to a great extent, so nothing matters in the long run. Writing the history of a server is some cool stuff, and I think most players prefer the clan-based one for this reason, and maybe because the faction way is too limited in what they want to do. No one remembers who was the guy that conquered location X, tomorrow it will be another guy. With clans it's different, because when they dominate the server they can do whatever they want, which usually means annoying other players, dominating the market, being the strongest, etc. You don't simply forget what clan backstabbed you and took your castle for free. That right there is server history. I think it's important to understand how important for many players freedom of action and server impact is... you can't really do that in a faction, because the possibilities are limited. If you make server domination a possibility, make it difficult to achieve or easy to break, constant tension of who the strongest clan is is exactly what you want in a clan-based server

 

Maybe you can try something inbetween, like EvE Online did, which includes both faction and clans. You can fight for your Faction (there are 4) and fight against the other players that fight for their own faction. Factions give global quests and stuff (in a way, it's similar to TW... conquer this, conquer that, creating big battles), also greater rewards the more you participate, etc but it's completely optional. What really matters there is 0.0 space dominance, which means constant PvP between really big alliances, gate-camping (chokepoints and entrances to 0.0 space, if you see someone that doesn't have positive standing to your corp/ally, you gang rape him. It basically translates into spawncamping, except that you have some time where when you appear, you are invisible until you move... but they know someone is there), and the occasional infiltrations/raids (group of players blowing others up as they travel into more and more owned/conflicted/dangerous territories). You can greatly effect other players and their relation with the territory by building small space facilities (not so expensive), or giant space stations that require extraordinary time, resources, and cooperation for a whole ally to use. Or simply destroying or conquering what others once created. Where is the ability to build your own castle in L2? That would certainly be a cool feature to have. This might even be possible with an updater and 3 map/geodata files. Territory with no castle / built castle / destroyed castle

 

PvP Reward in EvE Online is a % of the modules(gear) of the guy you just killed. You loose all your gear, yep. Ship included, but you can buy an insurance to minimize losses, but no one gives you back the modules... which is the expensive part, so you have to farm it back up. This creates a never-ending cycle between farming and PvP, farming creates PvP, PvP creates PvP, PvP creates farming... and it's why you always have something to do. This cycle in L2 is the exp loss when you die, but it doesn't seem to really work... remember back then when you died, you lost part of your exp bar, and dropped part of your equipment? That was some cool PvP reward. Now it's almost inexistant.

 

Linear character development is just the grind before becoming the same as everyone else, dinging 85, getting bored on endgame, and finally quitting or farming eternally the same mobs for slightly better stats. When the average guy hits endgame, new areas, armors, and quests get released so he doesn't get bored and quits. That's called a chronicle. Repeat. That's where it fails. Endgame. It means the game ends, log off and come back in 6 months, you finished farming, congratz!

 

Instead of having endgame, you could give a ton of possibilities which are super time-consuming to master, but not so hard to have at a decent level, and let people choose their own way to make their character as they want to. It's very difficult to imagine in L2, but you would have a clear image if it wouldn't be so level/class-based as it is. Maybe even include subclasses. Infinite subclasses, why not?

 

Don't include stronger armors, just include variations. Same for weapons, same for skill enchant routes, same for everything else. Let players build their own class and gear, basically. They will want to try all the possibilities. You can have instant endgame for the guy that just logged in, but have optional farming for variations. Essentially you have endgame, but you don't have to ever reach it because you are competent enough even if you just created your char. This is just a bad example, but the idea is that you never want players getting bored because they are overwhelmed and have the feeling of necessity that is too much to do, or the contrary, when they have nothing that is worth their time to do and there is no sense of progression. Maybe look at Tribes: Ascend to get a feel of what I mean. For the items part, A Grade armors had it right, S wasn't so bad too because there were always drawbacks. Anything above S is simply better, not different... which means farm it up or suck it up. Shouldn't be like that.

 

TLDR: Server impact is cool, but be sure that the underdogs have a chance to come back, else it's boring for everyone. Variation: different from simply better, optional stuff. Linear character development sucks. Extreme player customization: let them decide what they want to do with their char. That would be what I would consider doing if I were to change something on L2.

[sandpants]

Except that AION faction combat sucks.

 

It's all about who ganks who.

 

But flight is welcome.

 

 

If you COULD make a 3rd person "shooter" like TERA it could be interesting seeing as how popular L2 is. But ripping of meshes? Isn't that against the law? Even if whatever you perhaps make is gonna stay non profit, NCsoft will still try to bite your ass.

 

But yeah, advanced physics for flight, advanced animations and combat reaction.

More twitch based combat is what I'd like to see in "L2".

 

I really like how some MMOFPS take customization and leveling. YOu start of with generic gear set. As you advance and level you unlock other parts which increase and decrease various stats. So by max level you don't choose a set which is better than standard, but instead choose something thats different playstyle.

 

 

Anyhow, this topic will spoil all the ambition if you have any. Best to create your infrastructure first and see whats possible, rather than dream.

 

If you want features to be added to existing L2 - why bother with making new client?

 

I mostly agree with copyleft on what would be awesome - except for faction server arguments. The same clan tension exists on faction servers. No one is limiting clan making. But on a faction server is greater. A faction is a big entity and the tension between the factions is far greater than the tension between 10 clans where 1 is 60 people and dominates everyone. No one is gonna feel tension there, most will just emo quit.

And history is as bad as it is good. Now that that clan is dominating, newbies want to join it, veterans get more demotivated - you wipe and the same clan comes along. It's nice for a few weeks but then the same happens.

Happened on skirmish, didn't it...?

[Tryskell]

sandpants, there can have internal systems to balance factions, such as buff for the weakest faction, limitation to enter ingame, and such.

 

I speak only about great lines, as Copyleft did. Castles sieges, building a castle... Looks pretty cool, for instance. When permadeath could be annoying for a MMO, something like a "death loot bag" could reward winner of the pvp. A system where you build your own avatar and your own class (as TES did since 5 games - based on leveling skills and not levels) is ok. I think too the point & click isn't enough dynamic. Dodging spells, it's looks normal.

 

For any system there are pros/cons, and for near every system, cons can be balanced.

 

Finally, you have to dream first before to make any type of project : note what is possible and what isn't, note what could be cool and what wouldn't. That's the point of that topic, and even if my ideas doesn't go farer than ideas, it got the advantage to gather some ideas than ppl could use (some, even for L2J).

 

Finally finally, L2 is based on UT1 engine, it's just oldschool itself and pointless to dev on : one core restriction, fog of war, poor visuals overall (for nowadays) and probably oldschool tools aswell.

 

Finally finally finally, you're the guy seeing really far, not me ^^. I don't expect to be attacked by NCSoft lawyers one day. L2 got an impressive a-beep-t of meshes, maps and such. Why not to use them to "make an hand" on UDK3 then.

 

Anyway interesting PoVs ^^ I wait more !

[sandpants]

Well, most of it can be done in what we have now.

Classless system, variations of skills and armors.

 

I think why it hasn't happened is because there isn't much inspiration.

 

blacklight retribution whilst being an FPS has a pretty thorough unlock/customization system which don't upgrade standard gear but deviate it into a new gameplay.

 

Mass effect and borderlands skill system offers skills to do various things.

 

You can borrow these ideas, don't see much use in making L2 on a newer engine and end up redoing everything even further.

 

I think the main concern is interest.

 

Western interest in L2 is very low now. Copyleft showed Battles for glory 2 - russian custom L2 server with buttload of people. Make same server here - there will be 40 people max playing.

 

Would UT3 l2 convince people to play?

[vampir]

classless system, lineage based not on levels where 99 is max but leveling skills where maximum level would be infinity, thats easy to do, developers just need to have some time and very big inspiration, but something like that would be probably too much different from existing lineage, and players just wouldnt probably even try.

 

Changing lineage to FPS, thats possible too, even not that hard to do :)

[sandpants]

Well not FPS, but TPS.

 

And with existing client - would it be possible? I can't imagine.