EN Wth No L2Jdevs Left Around Here?

Intrepid · December 22, 2014

Where all the l2jdevs went? Or its just natural selection of the community? :D

N1nj4Styl3 · December 22, 2014

Hi Taric

Well, l2j devs mess with other stuff now. Some of them with Android App Dev, Minecraft, etc. In a few words, they went to places where they can show their skills because these platforms/games are alive right now.

Karasu · December 23, 2014

u say that l2 is dead?

no way, stop lieing, this game is pretty alive :dat:

Intrepid · December 23, 2014

Hi Taric

Well, l2j devs mess with other stuff now. Some of them with Android App Dev, Minecraft, etc. In a few words, they went to places where they can show their skills because these platforms/games are alive right now.

Wait wait wait, 95% of the people who were l2jdev here ever since the older ones(seth,vagos,rizel,myself) stopped couldnt even create a code bigger than 1 class. Dont tell me these people are actual android developers or whatever else they do right now. I was asking that because l2j started erhteia and i thought people are actually doing something with it.

Voqus · December 23, 2014

I have no idea about the people you mentioned, but others took advantage of the fact that they worked on a large project such as l2j and decided to work on a real programming job(building swings like myself lol)? Not sure but i know a few.

mcbigmac · December 23, 2014

Maintaning a large codebase with proper procedures and actual healthy design concepts was never l2j's thing.

It was just meant to work - and it does... still.

L2Off private leaks dominating the higher\newer chronicles - even l2j seems to fall out to "traditional chronicles" atm.

It's matter of forced memory of a time that didn't really exist in reality. You just think it did.

L2J has never from a core perspective been a better shape - it was 10 times worse when you were "king" most likely - and you didn't help to improve it much.

From a programming perspective there's a fuckton of a metric difference from writing small systems and changing some logic here there - to designing and creating larger solutions of "multiple connecting systems" in a "proper way" that are efficient and don't cause shitty bugs.

They can't shortcut like L2Off where one can actually protect ones work rather efficiently from being resold by the first idiot :P

I'd not have geussed L2J would be suffering this fate a few years ago - but it's essentially going the same route of L2Off is now. (With exceptance of those private leaks).

Edited December 23, 2014 by mcbigmac

Intrepid · December 23, 2014

Maintaning a large codebase with proper procedures and actual healthy design concepts was never l2j's thing.

It was just meant to work - and it does... still.

L2Off private leaks dominating the higher\newer chronicles - even l2j seems to fall out to "traditional chronicles" atm.

It's matter of forced memory of a time that didn't really exist in reality. You just think it did.

L2J has never from a core perspective been a better shape - it was 10 times worse when you were "king" most likely - and you didn't help to improve it much.

From a programming perspective there's a fuckton of a metric difference from writing small systems and changing some logic here there - to designing and creating larger solutions of "multiple connecting systems" in a "proper way" that are efficient and don't cause shitty bugs.

They can't shortcut like L2Off where one can actually protect ones work rather efficiently from being resold by the first idiot :P

I'd not have geussed L2J would be suffering this fate a few years ago - but it's essentially going the same route of L2Off is now. (With exceptance of those private leaks).

I'll be brutally honest with you now. You are repetative and dont take this offensively by any means but you so called l2off professionals repeat the same old things over and over again like some sort of higher power. You guys have no actual knowledge about the amount of years a software has been developed by how many people. You guys take a leak doesnt change a thing other than just really small stuff and small additions, l2j developers spend countless hours on creating something from scratch the best way they can to challange themselfs to be better or to try and implement new things. L2off developers tho i wouldnt even call anyone like that are just people who maintain a stolen resource, l2jdevelopers are people who create a maintainable resource by anyone who pleases to use it.

Now on that note i finish telling this for the millionth time in the past 6 years or so, please dont comment on anything related to l2j or even l2off since none of the people who claims to be an l2off developer are actual developers(thats why no matter how many times maxtor wants an l2off server its never going to work). By the way that was not my question so you basically just came here to downtalk l2j developers once again.

mcbigmac · December 23, 2014

I'll be brutally honest with you now. You are repetative and dont take this offensively by any means but you so called l2off professionals repeat the same old things over and over again like some sort of higher power. You guys have no actual knowledge about the amount of years a software has been developed by how many people. You guys take a leak doesnt change a thing other than just really small stuff and small additions, l2j developers spend countless hours on creating something from scratch the best way they can to challange themselfs to be better or to try and implement new things. L2off developers tho i wouldnt even call anyone like that are just people who maintain a stolen resource, l2jdevelopers are people who create a maintainable resource by anyone who pleases to use it.

Now on that note i finish telling this for the millionth time in the past 6 years or so, please dont comment on anything related to l2j or even l2off since none of the people who claims to be an l2off developer are actual developers(thats why no matter how many times maxtor wants an l2off server its never going to work). By the way that was not my question so you basically just came here to downtalk l2j developers once again.

I love how every reaction from you is mega negative and defensive.

I geuss i hit the sweet spot - when i said in terms of core development and improvement besides adding simpler features ontop of already build systems\object - you personally haven't done much.

Else why would you feel so defensive little girl ? ;)

Quantitative L2J has had more developers - but if neither invest to improve the core systems that do need improvement - it's gonna be a never ending circle.

(Note that the l2off projects that still exist have existed for a long time - because their developed by a one or two people over time.)

100++ developers not under tight control are going to deliver serious variations in quality code - from top 5 developers to the bottom 5.

That's a problem - and is L2Js problem that still plagues it with all the million packs and forks.

Until someone rewrites the base infrastructure for good (which those private RU projects may or may not have as they claim).

Wether or not you whine like a little bitch (because it says l2off in my name) - that's the reality and it's the same thats happened to l2off.

People want to earn some reward for their invested time - and kindness of community feedback\feeling ain't gonna be the driver for either l2off or l2j.

It's gonna be small and private - and take a long time for feasible results with an "open" free model.

Edited December 23, 2014 by mcbigmac

Intrepid · December 23, 2014

I love how every reaction from you is mega negative and defensive.

I geuss i hit the sweet spot - when i said in terms of core development and improvement besides adding simpler features ontop of already build systems\object - you personally haven't done much.

Else why would you feel so defensive little girl ? ;)

Quantitative L2J has had more developers - but if neither invest to improve the core systems that do need improvement - it's gonna be a never ending circle.

(Note that the l2off projects that still exist have existed for a long time - because their developed by a one or two people over time.)

100++ developers not under tight control are going to deliver serious variations in quality code - from top 5 developers to the bottom 5.

That's a problem - and is L2Js problem that still plagues it with all the million packs and forks.

Until someone rewrites the base infrastructure for good (which those private RU projects may or may not have as they claim).

Wether or not you whine like a little bitch (because it says l2off in my name) - that's the reality and it's the same thats happened to l2off.

People want to earn some reward for their invested time - and kindness of community feedback\feeling ain't gonna be the driver for either l2off or l2j.

It's gonna be small and private - and take a long time for feasible results with an "open" free model.

The negativity is from you, you are acting like a smartass searching for a fight or for some kind of positive confirmation that you are something good. You still doesnt talk about what i asked, you came here to trash l2j yet you guys fail miserably when it comes to any sort of development. Theres an old saying put up or shut up, The guys whos work you trash so hard have made so many things you couldnt dream doing not even a single 1 of those, you on the other hand do nothing and capable of nothing because all you do is download some supposed leak files from some russian source and use it to a self proclaimed developer status.

I dont feel neither defensive nor negative, the funny part is you say i havent done much well may be so but that confirms you want a personal conflict because you involve me in a question i havent included myself. I understand that thats the spam section but please with the theory of yours go talk to some of the oldschool developers who in your opinion havent done much like nb4l1,lordrex or even the ex inner circle of l2j. You will notice you can get yourself lectured in a matter of minutes about things you cant even start a conversation about to begin with.

I may havent done much as far as l2j goes which i doubt in many ways but thats your opinion, but you got promoted personally by maxtor with no work done for the community in the form of anything, you watched maxtor fail many many times with hes l2off servers while you claim to be an l2off developer and yet you act like l2j is the devil and you are the 1 who will save humanity from it and enlighten the masses.

And as a last response to you because i dont bother responding to people like yourself searching for netfights over a childish subject, l2j always had a hierarchy in development and that hierarchy always follows the basic structure of svn and now git which you obviously dont know about. You have a trunk or master folder which is the always unstable fresh code that gets developed over time, you have the branches or releases that have been tested for a long time under a single revision number and have been fixed to run as stable as possible. Now in order to get a changeset commited into the trunk you have to consult with the developers of the respective area or even the inner circle in some case to get the code up for a standard they use even in code formatting or even in the form of patterns they use for simplicity. That logically makes your argument pretty much screwed in every way. Ohh and sure people want rewards for the invested time in anything, but what reward you ask for when your invested time is google search, get to a russian source lick ass, download something and sell it. I would spit myself in the face if i would do such a thing.

Now go ahead and go cry out some sort of punishment for me, because i said bad things about you but if you do atleast talk about the question that has been made.

drake2wow · December 24, 2014

I love how every reaction from you is mega negative and defensive.

I geuss i hit the sweet spot - when i said in terms of core development and improvement besides adding simpler features ontop of already build systems\object - you personally haven't done much.

Else why would you feel so defensive little girl ? ;)

Quantitative L2J has had more developers - but if neither invest to improve the core systems that do need improvement - it's gonna be a never ending circle.

(Note that the l2off projects that still exist have existed for a long time - because their developed by a one or two people over time.)

100++ developers not under tight control are going to deliver serious variations in quality code - from top 5 developers to the bottom 5.

That's a problem - and is L2Js problem that still plagues it with all the million packs and forks.

Until someone rewrites the base infrastructure for good (which those private RU projects may or may not have as they claim).

Wether or not you whine like a little bitch (because it says l2off in my name) - that's the reality and it's the same thats happened to l2off.

People want to earn some reward for their invested time - and kindness of community feedback\feeling ain't gonna be the driver for either l2off or l2j.

It's gonna be small and private - and take a long time for feasible results with an "open" free model.

Get real, l2off is dead for a few great reasons

Means no challenge vs l2j
c++ is shitty for such projects (don't comment on this, I've written thousands of c++ code in my life)
Highly limited and unstable
Every unskilled scrub can maintain one

Karasu · December 24, 2014

Get real, l2off is dead for a few great reasons

Means no challenge vs l2j

c++ is shitty for such projects (don't comment on this, I've written thousands of c++ code in my life)

Highly limited and unstable

Every unskilled scrub can maintain one

thousand years of c++ coding

yeah, someone like you!

get a life!

oh no ,weit, yur laif has been generated on the computers and it maintain ur brains alive! and you have stoled world-wide resources ,oh how smart you are god damn it ,please messiah!,show us your way

drake2wow · December 24, 2014

Why the hell Im supposed to read a nonfactor's message every damn time I have to post something in mxc? Well for your own luck I've spent a few seconds of my life reading your bullshit.

"Thousand years of c++ coding"

First of all, I said thousands lines and if you think thats too much I can tell that this would be millions if it was my favorite language, thousands is a matter of months if not weeks.

Now part two, I've got 3 consecutive days to login here yet a crap nolifer that lives with a few augment donations on his shitty server he downloaded calls me no lifer of something. Yea its 4:00 morning here in athens, just came home from being out to check out the crapland before going to bed

Edited December 24, 2014 by drake2wow

mcbigmac · December 24, 2014

Why the hell Im supposed to read a nonfactor's message every damn time I have to post something in mxc? Well for your own luck I've spent a few seconds of my life reading your bullshit.

"Thousand years of c++ coding"

First of all, I said thousands lines and if you think thats too much I can tell that this would be millions if it was my favorite language, thousands is a matter of months if not weeks.

Now part two, I've got 3 consecutive days to login here yet a crap nolifer that lives with a few augment donations on his shitty server he downloaded calls me no lifer of something. Yea its 4:00 morning here in athens, just came home from being out to check out the crapland before going to bed

@ Drake2Wow:

It's dead because not every unskilled scrub can maintain one - if that was the case you'd see tons of activity. Same for L2J - but there aint activity in either camp. Knowledge is dead in both sides.

C++ is irrelevant in l2off as a whole and your typical whiny "i'm a real programmer too excuse" you put out on MXC in general - gets tiring man, please save it for the younger kids :)

If it's easy - write me autopickup for C4 exe based on not last hitter, but on most damage done to the monster (This is a challenge, awaiting you to do it - hell ill pay you).

You can't - because you can't just know what to write without research into the direct assembly\.exe and it's compiled machine code.

L2Off is not "knowing c++ - i've written 1000s of lines, nub" - it's knowing what c++ code to write, thats the hard part.

Knowing the language and it's memory management\pointer quirks contra managed language ala .NET\java comes second.

Hell, some russkies in PP time used to write ext's in Delphi (Why do russkies love delphi?).

There's zero difference from buying L2Reunion\L2DC\L2Scripts - and asking them to do all the work for mods - and then asking AdvExt to do the same.

Both are unskilled scrubs - but its easier for most to get the source for the l2j projects and do some core mods than it is the other way around.

This doens't change that L2J is heading the same way as l2off - private projects\private knowledge.

I've yet to see much change in IO\Network management code when i compare L2Chef's original design ideas to newer l2j or other projects ive looked at to try learn a thing or two.

Those that know how to change the real performance issues - won't share it publicly cause it's worth something.

Same with L2Off - why should people share knowledge they've spend years researching\learning the binaries for free?

..and drake when you start whining about languages being super shitty for X reason - it proves your probably unable to master that programming language ;)

There's a reason 99% of all performance related gaming-code in the real world is C++ - and a reason it's not managed languages...and also a reason why it's not direct assembly\machine code.

One of the languages offer the right match of performance & difficulty in implementation of everything.

@Intrepid:

I'm going to ignore half your post - because you brain fails to realize i'm not looking down on a platform or programming language or similar.

I'm explaining where things are headed, l2off or l2j - due to thirst for knowledge and learning being at lowly low point.

(Which is why you posted in the first place, l2j devs are going where l2off devs have gone).

Tell me where has the current heirachy model brought l2j? - in terms of retailness or correctness or performance for that matter.

Where's all the new chronicles that l2j was always first at sniffing packets for in the old days?

Upgrading after 1 month of retail getting a new patch - to new client protocol and adding some content here\there.

The fact everything stopped at h5 sorts of indicates there was a BUTTLOAD of content work missing, a buttload of core logic needing changes and new systems to be written - doesn't it?

My observations point more or less to fact - that publicly atleast - l2j is going the l2off route with closed knowledge in circles.

...and the reason i poked you - is because some of the issues that truly made l2off stand out in the old days (because l2off just happenedl) haven't really changed.

And while i'm sure you've been able to do many cool things and projects - you and everyone didn't decide to try fix the framework that was created "just to work" not to "work good, efficiently in a technical superior way".

I don't see however what all of this has to do with l2off and maxtor - but i geuss you'd like to try pin everything that happens badly to l2off on l2off people (good luck!).

Which sort underlines my points about your reading comprehension - and understanding of my message ;)

Edited December 24, 2014 by mcbigmac

drake2wow · December 24, 2014

Dude, being able to manipulate a few pointers with HEX editing doesn't require any skill at all. It requires the right tools and patience. Personally I don't give a shit for developing l2off because it has nothing to offer to me. I won't be ever asked to reverse engineer and edit a shitty 2004 32 bit assembly, simply because none will ever ask for such a dumb thing.

IMHO l2off should be really out of discussion after 2012, l2j is better in everything, the thing that keeps l2off alive on this forum is the false perspective that its better, but no Its still alive because maxcheaters is crawded by dumbs and admins that believe they live in 08's

drake2wow · December 24, 2014

@ Drake2Wow:

..and drake when you start whining about languages being super shitty for X reason - it proves your probably unable to master that programming language ;)

There's a reason 99% of all performance related gaming-code in the real world is C++ - and a reason it's not managed languages...and also a reason why it's not direct assembly\machine code.

You are wrong, I respect the power of the C language, but not for gameservers. Java has been proven to be faster, cleaner and less cost effective than any C++ code counterpart, and thats because it has the superior JIT compiler that makes adjustments even in runtime. I can run it on linux, on mac and even on my android, while l2off's c++ outdated core is stuck on 32 bit 2003 windows just because its machine language where the only advantage it has is that its almost impossible to be reversed engineered in comparison with a java gs.

PS: Ye another notable advantage over java gameservers is that it makes a faster startup in comparison with JIT's warmup, but ask yourself do you even care for a few extra seconds the very first seconds of your gameserver's life? You really dont.

C++ gives you literally no advantage to be used over Java on the specific gameserver, if you believe it does please give me some arguments.

Professionals go always like this

Server: Java / Managed Language - rare cases native c++

Client: Native languages

Edited December 24, 2014 by drake2wow

EN Wth No L2Jdevs Left Around Here?

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