Mr_Zero

Well, it's not like the competition is great, I mean, if you want to play Interlude right now on a mid-ish rate where do you go besides Warland? I've only been seeing Russian & BR mid-rates for a long time that die after a month or so, and their sole purpose for opening is to try and milk as much cash as they can before they go bust, lol. Quick money grabs. When a server stays open for over 3 years in the current landscape, it must be doing something right. :O We can say that it's supported by a retard community, sure, whatever, we'll see, but I don't see how "paid clans" and "server jumpers" are any better.

Nothing, in fact, I dare say that we might have a similar outlook on a few things. >>" <<" Anyhow, thank you for your response. I'm not gonna go ahead and continue advocating this place, as I only spent a limited amount of time on it when the server was still new. I was just really impressed with its longevity. It's rare these days, especially for Interlude servers. That being said, I might try it again, because as I said, its longevity was impressive. We'll see, I guess.

Aren't you Greek? :P But yeah, I understand what you're trying to say about the Greek part. I just wanted to ask one thing. You stated that you played here for a year and a half, roughly. If that was indeed the case, then why did you invest such a long period of time in it, if the server was as terrible as you're describing? Also, is hunting down bots taken seriously here?

If I'm not mistaken the last server was online without a wipe for over 3 years and didn't have p2w donates. This server is the real deal, imo.

B since A seems unrealistic, and mostly via features, not standard protection. Anything between x20-x100 seems more appropriate for including customized mechanics. So typical mid-rate I suppose.

Some good stuff is starting to come in, imo. @Tryskell I saw a server where you could be online with 2-3 clients, but you could only farm with one of them, the others would not receive drops while the "main" client was online. I think that's useful. You could still farm with a single client and keep your box in town for whatever reason (or your summoner or w/e online). @Blitzkrieg Yeah, that's a major issue, you cant hand out middle fingers like that to people who are solo or don't participate in group activities for whatever reason. I think the Nobless thing could lead to places with some tweaking and refining. Great idea, imo. Example, as you said you set "Nobless only" quests. Limit these quests on how many times you can do per day (ranging from 1-3 or w/e) for each nobless character. These are your dailies. Most mid-rates set nobless to "last hit barakiel". This obviously wouldn't work since you cant block so much essentials for a player based on his luck, as the Nobless Quest-only idea gives new weight to being nobless. But yeah, invest in Nobless that isn't luck based and get access to "Nobless Quests". Example, TT farming (would be a Nobless Quest) could be done 2-3 times a day (just from the top of my head) at a high success chance to get a recipe. Bot rogues on a script are no longer as useful. Things like this is what I'm mostly talking about. Instead of having to do that tedious quest 50+ times to get a set of recs, you do it like 10 times in a few days. That is really player friendly, imo. People can keep farming these dailies after to sell on market for players who joined on a later date and wand to catch up, or people who seek to over-enchant. Something like Pagans could be restricted to Nobless-Only quest too. Once a day per Nobless character.

I don't recall stating in this topic that I intend to open a server, I'm just an average player who enjoys the game, that's all. What I don't like, however, is the trajectory the game has taken these past few years, hence the topic. Maybe I'm hitting a nerve or two, though, I don't know. After all, most players have adapted to adrenaline nowadays. It's the standard norm. Mid/high rates aren't designed for longevity. I'd be perfectly happy as a player to join a mid rate that would last around 2 months if it was enjoyable. I'd consider that a success, actually. That being said, different mechanics could breed different results. They could lead to utter failure, or they could lead to a success story. Who knows? But anyhow, when you read a server's description you should be aware of what you're signing up for, to an extent. If I want longevity, I'll invest my time in a low rate, but there is reluctance to do so, because primarily bots win, and that's only enhanced as time progresses. Not everyone seeks longevity, however. Regardless, this is a highly subjective argument. What you consider idiotic might work for me, and vise versa. I just find it a bit tedious that people are unwilling to explore. Look at the majority of servers opening up these days. They're pretty much the same. There are cases where projects stand out, and I'm happy that some are actually opening this month. But overall, I don't see why it would be bad to at least discuss alternative routes, albeit, on a hypothetical note. Those who aren't interested, well, there are plenty of projects that cater to your preferences, so no worries. This topic isn't for you.

Yeah, fuckfest is actually a great way to describe it, haha. This is why I was hoping that suggestions could come in to try to minimize the significance of bots, while somehow maintaining an enjoyable gaming experience that is still somewhat reliant on merit. You cant phase botting out of the game, okay, I accept that, but there have to be features/mechanics that somehow level the playing field (at least on something like a higher end mid-rate that's geared to casual development). Conventional L2 mechanics are more susceptible to bots due to their complexity.

Perhaps I should have worded it differently then. Minimizing the significance of bots would be more accurate, and more realistic. Yes no matter what you do you will have bots, okay. But look at conventional L2 quests and mechanics. You can abuse the hell out of everything via bots. People even have the tenacity to name their spoilers out of materials they bot for, lol. “CBP”, “DMP”, MithrilOre”. I actually saw that not too long ago. Quests like Stakato, Pagans, FoG, are abused on every single server I’ve seen. You are right when you say as long as an economic system is in place you will have bots. But a currency’s value comes from its purchasing power, and the goods and services you can actually use it for. If you set adena/drop rates at x1 on an x100 EXP server, and eliminate conventional material and quest hunting, while replacing those with alternative ways to “gear up” and obtain valuable items (life-stones, enchants etc) you do have a chance at minimizing the significance of bots. The key here is the alternative method. Custom currency or w/e doesn’t suffice, whether you name it Gold Bar, or Medals. That’s not the point. The point is to make 2 hours of normal, real game-play inside some dungeon by a small group of players be the equivalent of a week for someone who’d bot in the open world. If real valuables in the game can only be obtained in environments inhospitable for bots, then by default, you minimize their significance. Raid Bosses are inhospitable for bots, since they are contested via PvP and it's simply not time consuming to kill it. A daily dungeon would also be inhospitable. You can automate a hard dungeon as well, I know, but it’s still better than bots using the conventional route in the game and reaping the benefits it offers in the open world. I firmly believe there is a way to create a server environment where bots aren't as useful as they are in retail game-play, and that is the purpose of this thread, to brainstorm over it.

Lets take Interlude client as an example since it’s widespread. Keep it to mid/high rate since bots would remain useful for the sake of grinding on a low rate. So x100? Okay, let’s do x100. What’s next? What’s good about IL? Numerous sides competing for Epic Bosses. The mass PvP is where the game shines. Okay, so we’re keeping that. Standard mid-rate game-play is all about challenging for these epics. So obviously Epic Jewels are only obtainable via killing Epic Bosses under this bot free server. But what will the smaller groups do? Well, how about we create a feature where Epic Bosses and another significant boss spawns exactly at the same time? Lets say it’s Thursday and Baium spawns at 21:00. Well, create an environment where Ember spawns at the exact same time. This creates two tiers of challengers. Those who challenge for the top prize of the night, which is Baium, and those who challenge for the intermediate challenge of the night, Ember. So we’ve created an environment where small sides and big sides have something to do on Thursday night. Keep something similar for most nights. This is irrelevant to bots but it's an example of building a server that's good for a multi-layer of true players. So what about standard items? You cant eliminate bots if you still use conventional mechanics for items via crafting, spoiling, standard farming. Well, this is where it gets tricky. How do we create an environment and final product that is both engaging, maintains a sense of progress and occupancy for its players? Well, I suppose listing the essentials of what an average player must do to succeed in IL would be a good start, and after that we must find an alternate method of obtaining these items without bots being useful, or at least decisive. Weapons & Armors & Jewels SA crystals Life stones Enchants Subclass/Nobless Olympiad (anti-feed) So obviously stakato quest, pagans, torches, molars and I don't know what else simply wont do. Generally, spoiling wont do either. Conventional materials should become insignificant in crafting and world spoiling should be set at x1 rates (so enchants cant be abused either). Steam-line the crafting system, where you only require the rec, the key mats, crystals and gemstones, and have these items be obtained via scenarios like 4s, rift, normal bosses, epic bosses and w/e we can come up with. I ramble. : D

The main reason I’m opening this topic is to see if anyone has any suggestions when it comes to trying to make bot significance on an L2 server redundant, while also being able to maintain a decent level of a sense of progression to keep the player interested in the server. I’ve noticed that some projects are including auto features similar to that of live official servers. Okay, so that’s one way to tackle it, somewhat. But now L2 is a mobile game for everyone. Another server I tried recently allows you to only get items/adena from farming on one box (though I’m sure this can be bypassed by fiddling with IP and stuff). So again, random people who bot might be limited, but people who know what the're doing will reign supreme. Anyhow, I think it’s safe to say that a server will never be able to eliminate bots, regardless of protections and good will. So I was thinking, why not create a server environment that ensures that bots are useless. Example, some PvP servers have made raid bosses the only relevant outlet when it comes to obtaining top level items, in most cases parts of some custom armor. You basically add 10 raids to your server, have a re-spawn time of like 1 hour for each, and the cycle of repetition begins. This is one way of tackling the significance of bots. But alone the product is unsatisfying. However, what if we pooled ideas together and see what we can come up with. Essentially, I’m asking you to include ideas on how to make bots useless on a server via features. We’ll probably have to stick to mid-rates and high-rates, as low rates require grinding for exp, so not much can be done there, I suppose.

Anything that isn't advertised as "Pride Style" is not "Pride Style".

Yeah of course. Also, I meant the stats it gives at +7 and onward.

Crystal enchants work the same as Blessed in Beta, custom armor set effects don't work.

Oh, yeah, you're completely right about that. Guess my only realistic options are to try Classic and/or adapt to these new times with IL and whatever else.

So to my understanding Gracia/H5 has similar interfaces ,while classic not yet, much less so?

Hello, I recently returned to the L2 scene, trying to play the game on a more serious note (participating in mass pvps with clans and contesting for epics and stuff), after many years of just randomly playing a bit on a casual level, and not paying all too much attention. But after a short spell now (1-2 months) I've come to loathe a bit the turn this game has taken with these Interfaces, their automated features, and edited animations. The purpose of this thread isn't to criticize those who create these things or use them. But I've discovered that if you want to compete you pretty much HAVE to use it (this is debatable, but w/e). So I used it. Okay, so our side uses it, the opposing sides use it, but the end result is unsatisfying, imo. Interlude is definitely finished for me as a result of these new automated features, as I've noticed that most of these Interfaces are for Interlude in particular. So my question is pretty simple I guess. Do these interfaces work on other chronicles such as Gracia or Classic? I'm hoping they don't, so I can potentially try these chronicles instead. Anyhow, I would appreciate if someone with experience on these matters could enlighten me a bit. Thanks in advance.

Hello the server forum doesn't seem to work. Edit: Okay now its up. Do you have any online estimate? Will any solid clans be joining?

I see, thank you both for your responses. I'm completely oblivious from a technical point of view, but after reading your posts I completely understand why something like this isn't plausible.

Would it be technically possible for a project to begin as Interlude, then update to Hellbound, and then eventually up to Gracia? Or something among those lines? After people playing IL servers for such a long time I think it would be fun for a server to follow such a format. I'd definitely join something like this for a change. I guess this doesn't happen due to the cost of files or something and perhaps the risk?

Might get into this as I cant seem to find a decent mid-rate server these days. Any thoughts on introducing some sort of starter pack in the near future? :P

Never really got into these chronicles, but the project looks really well made. I'm going to try this when it comes out.

Couldn't agree more with King Stannis, especially the part about the emo-quitting clans and their mentality.

Hello Corv. I think your question a bit too broad due to the many variations of server rates and chronicles. Is there anything in particular you're a bit more passionate about over the others? I mean, in your mind, what would be an ideal server? Every variation (at least for rates) has its player base, more or less. As an old player myself that occasionally revisits L2, I've enjoyed both lower rates and higher rates. I think the main problem these days is people have a very short attention span. They jump servers way too often, and project runners are mostly in for the quick money grab. But it's not all their fault, to be fair. People jump way too often and have come to accept the "2-4 week" server culture. While botters have completely ruined the game for me. Anyhow, on to your actual question. My ideal server, at the given moment, would be something along the lines of x15 or so. I find the pace acceptable without it being too demanding or too rushing. I'd like it to be kept relatively close to retail game-play. No GM shops, no infinite buff slots, no AIO NPC buffers. The last 10 mid rate servers I've joined are the typical "Multi-craft" servers. Where people RUSH everything and NPC conveniences are added. I'm sort of done with that. On the other hand every time I've joined something like and x5/x7 server I've found myself looking at a big mountain, and failing to climb it. So yeah, for starters, x15 or so would do it for me personally.

I cant really blame those who have adjusted their game-play in recent years, but no one can deny that L2 was at its best prior to all these auto add-ons and stuff. Well, truthfully L2 was great around a decade ago and earlier. Then it gradually went to sh1t in many ways.